‘He’s so bright but he just won’t work’

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If he was ‘so bright’ then he’d know he needs to work to get results.

The ‘clever but won’t work’ thing is trotted about so many DC, but it’s self defeating. DC worry that if they did work hard but dont’t get Grade As, what then? So they don’t work, and keep the myth of their cleverness alive.

Meanwhile parents convince themselves their children are ‘very bright’ but [x excuse]. It all leads to poor mental health in teens as the myth and the outcome diverge.

AIBU?

ADHD in a nutshell

The problem is that "bright"
Hs no real meaning and means so many different things to different people.

I don't equate bright with intelligent. To me being bright means getting what you need to do in life and being able to execute it correctly.

Being able to pass GCSE English with a grade 9 isn't a useful skill outside from school for someone who doesn't want to work in communications.

I think bright students are the ones who work out what it is they need to do to achieve their next step, choose subjects to give themselves a good balance of necessary exams and enjoyable subjects, work hard to plug their understanding where gaps exist and who manage to juggle education with learning other vital life skills and enjoying and pursuing their interests too.

When being able to remember lots of info and spout it out to demand in a test is described as bright you often get students who think life will just be easy for them holistically - and that's not reflective of actual real life.

I disagree, I think what we’re ultimately discussing is work ethic and it’s the same thing whether ultimately applied in a classroom, an office or a building site.
The ‘bright but lazy’ kids just need to be shown how to play the long game, bit more effort now for a much easier life overall.

Of course you can be bright but lazy. I was one of those - did just what I needed to get things done. I still do tbh - at work I can do things far faster than most people so can be lazier than most as I still produce the goods.

I agree that it would be good to get kids to focus more on effort and resilience but if you’re academically gifted the reality is that school will be a bit of a doddle. Not everything in life has to be learned between the ages of 5 and 18!

@SisterWivesrus this is it though. It clearly is ADHD Ignorant fwits like you are what contribute to the 4 x higher rate of suicide amongst the neurodivergent. You are contributing to that directly by that sort of attitude - are you not getting it?

I've just been to see DSs teacher over something. He's eight.

He's done an assessment this week and she was talking about it. In the past I've done them at home with him - and he's just missed questions out. Asking him about it, he's got upset and not even tried because he's anxious about getting it wrong. Or he just doesn't feel confident enough to answer.

She showed him that he'd - yet again - missed whole pages out. She said, "right, you can do these, have a go at them right now". And he did. With complete ease, then and there.

He's not being lazy. He's getting distracted, over thinking it or getting anxious about it.

Both me and his teacher are seeing him doing it. And it's massively frustrating because he CAN do the question. He knows the answer, cos when verbally asked it, he can answer without prompting further.

He is clever. He repeatedly shows it verbally. It can answer the question on the paper. The problem is demonstrating he knows it for assessment purposes and he's just not doing that WHEN he's supposed in the format required. When told to do individual questions RIGHT NOW, he will too.

The issue is large assessment papers where he gets overwhelmed by the situation. He's being looked at for ADHD and we will need to, over time, teach him good assessment techniques so he makes sure he does stuff like answer every question and he does feel more confident about the answers he has in his head.

My point is 'clever but won't work' might have a deeper, legitimate reason behind it.

There are other scenarios to the one above, which would result in a similar situation too.

I don’t quite understand your point, what is it? That all parent should demand a specific result? Children are very aware of what marks they are getting at school. Some kids don’t have to work to get good marks- what are you suggesting should happen? Schools are driven by results. At some point we all have to start putting more effort in to get the results, that’s normal and not a cause of poor mental health. I think too much pressure is the really detrimental thing to mental health

while we're at it, I can assure you that I am most definitely not working from limited information, quite the opposite. Adhd and ND is not a bandwagon, it's the emergence of too many people that are suffering the consequences of under diagnosis and having their pain diminished by the likes of you.

So how about you fuck off and do some reading?

"Bright but lazy" can mean several things:

a) undiagnosed inattentive ADHD or other difficulties with executive functions such as a major gap between processing speed and conceptual ability. These students may try very hard, but can't do what's expected of them. There is a difference between can't and won't.

b) Extremely bright, chronically underchallenged at school, and therefore has never had the chance (or need) to develop good work habits or study skills. Most of these people come unstuck at A level or university when coasting no longer works. The brighter they are, the longer they can coast, and the farther they get before it all comes crashing down. I've seen kids in the top 100 nationally at GCSE or A level in certain subjects effortlessly get A stars through school but at degree level fail to get a first or fail to complete the 4 year course for which they enrolled, because coasting all the way through school meant they never learned to work.

c) just plain bright but lazy, because that's their personality or preference, and if that's their choice they're entitled to it.

Or a combination of the above three.

But you generally can't tell which it is from a distance. Teachers are far too quick to jump to assuming (c) because it gives them any easy target to blame and pass moral judgement on, whereas no teacher will ever assume (b) because then it would be their and their colleagues fault.

The ‘bright but lazy’ kids just need to be shown how to play the long game, bit more effort now for a much easier life overall.
But what is their incentive? Children live very much in the present and telling them you'll be glad you did this in twenty years won't get through to them in most cases. They can't imagine being 35, 40 or older.

‘Intelligent but lazy’ types do exist, but then so do ‘deluded parents making excuses’. What frustrates me is the complete refusal for many parents to acknowledge their child is lovely and average, and work with that, rather than insisting they’re ‘very bright’ and ‘try their best’ but the ‘teacher marks them down constantly’ or some other excuse.

But the OPs post pretty much sums up ADHD issues and ADHD is associated with under performance at school despite obvious ability!!!

If this was a thread about something else maybe it'd be a stupid post but it's not.

It's absolutely bang inline with the OP and why the OP is just wrong.

No, many kids are just lazy or easily distracted. Why wouldn’t they be, there are much more fun things out there like sex and alcohol 🤷🏼‍♀️

And I too am tired of the aggressive posts by people insisting everything must be the result of a neurodivergent condition. Nobody else would get away with speaking to other posters the way you do.

YABU - DC that are bright and don't work - don't need to work. That's the point. The people who need to work for results are the ones who aren't as bright.
As for your amateur psychology about the impact on MH, it's just embarrassing and completely unfounded. There has been research that shows the opposite is true and that DCs who take a more relaxed approach actually have better MH outcomes and a better work/life balance. DCs who worry and work hard, have more anxiety and it adversely affects their MH.

Whenever children being ‘bright’ comes up on MN I’m reminded of Jeremy Hardy talking about middle-class parents explaining that their children misbehave at school because they’re so ‘bright’. They’re not being stretched you see and that’s why they set fire to the other children

English teacher here. Nine times out of ten, when I use this phrase, I then explain that the pupil is great verbally and gives fantastic, in depth, nuanced answers when asked, but just won’t put pen to paper. This is particularly frustrating because the intellect is there but no examiner will ever see it unless something changes.
Sometimes it’s laziness, but often it’s a belief that they need to make what they say ‘posher’ somehow before committing it to paper (there’s no need!) and that this in itself is just too daunting. Look at ‘Talk for Writing’ and get used to chatting through ideas, things happening in the world, their day even in detail to get them putting detailed answers together. Regular diary writing or journalling can also help with this.

Thw theory you're describing is "growth mindset". Carol Dweck put forward a very influential theory that emphasising Intrinsic "brightness" is damaging to children because they don't control it, and therefore children told they're "bright" can begin to actively avoid any kind of challenge because they're afraid it will reveal they are not "bright". Whereas emphasising learning and improvement through work, error, and effort supports better resilience. Every skill is ultimately an acquired one. It's very influential in education circles now.

@AlligatorPsychopath This is it! Exactly.

Although I am sure that @Oblomov23 and others will come along and insist they know better.

It’s the distinction between the ‘innateness’ and the demonstrated skill that parents make that ends up doing the DC more harm than good.

Yabu. I have one who is bright but doesn’t work. Teachers have said this. Her results are great but she does the bare minimum and could be a straight 9s student if she applied herself just a bit more. That’s school feedback not my parent view. It’s not a badge of honour, nor do we use it as such. We would rather she had lower grades and a better work ethic, but hopefully that will develop as she matures.

Intelligence and executive function skills aren’t the same thing

It makes bright people lazy

Which is not always a winning combination

Bright children end up just fine eventually even if they mess up their education, lucky things.

I’ve coasted through every exam I ever done and never put a bit of work in.

I don’t have a successful job - I just didn’t work hard when I was a young adult and that’s where it counts. I’m a mum of four now when youngest goes to school I will as well and actually work now!!

You can only get away with that when you’re young imo.

Surely your definition of ‘potential’ will determine if / how much you’ve fulfilled it?
I have 2 children. One highly intelligent, one not as intelligent. Both worked hard enough to achieve their ambitions because they both knew how much effort they needed to put into school / Uni in order to achieve those ambitions.

What in the OPs post 'sums up ADHD issues?'

She said 'bright but won't work'.

That sums up ADHD does it? Is that in the diagnostic criteria? Could you get a referral for an assessment based on that sentence?

Is there no other possible reason why someone might not be trying at school?

Did OP mention ANY possible symptoms of ADHD? Nope.

Give it a fucking rest.

Ya'll are all over MN complaining about people not raking ADHD seriously and denying it's become a trend on social media while suggesting it as a diagnosis based on a fucking sentence.

It's not Panorama causing people to have concerns about the ADHD 'trend' it's people like you. YOU are part of the problem.