Can my work do this? Ah!

[Workdilemmma]

So I have a new job, and gave notice (4 weeks) to my current job at the beginning of May, in writing to my manager over email. I wrote a letter of resignation and attached it and my manager wrote back and it was accepted etc.

I was told I would hear from HR regarding my left over annual leave/last day etc, but as I hadn’t heard from them I messaged today to ask if all was ok.

Well, it turns out that my manager never gave them my resignation or told them I was leaving- and HR have said that they can only accept my resignation from today’s date and if I was to leave before this, it would have to be out of my remaining annual leave balance.

I am due to finish on Friday, take a weeks annual leave and then start my new job. Can they really make me work four weeks if this wasn’t my fault? And will they take my annual leave balance from me if so?

Btw, our annual leave runs June- July and I’ve only take 3 days- so would be owed a bit I think.

My company only has 15 members of staff so not feasible to have our own in house HR person, so we have no option but to outsource.

We have just had some bad advice from them though, which resulted in me wasting a lot of time, energy and, ultimately cost us money, which I'm not happy about, so I'm in a bit of a lose-lose situation at the moment!

HR director here. It's unlawful deduction of wages. Email then with the managers confirmation stating you will be leaving on X date and require payment of holiday. State not doing so is unlawful deduction of wages. Raise a grievance at the same time citing emotional distress and stress. They will conform.

You won't be taking your annual leave to your be jon though just being paid it so I don't see the issue?
Plenty of people use their leave as notice.

Sounds stressful OP. As most others have said check your individual contract. For your own information I would also check with your Manager if he/she did inform HR. You only have HRs word it was not sent and as one of 2 are on annual leave perhaps it was sent to the one on leave. Either way not your problem but sad to leave thinking ill of a Manager when they may not be in the wrong.

If she is forced to take it as annual leave she will be paid less. If she doesn't have to take it as annual leave, she will be paid for her accrued annual leave allowance.

But e.g. imaginary scenario below.

Scenario 1:

I have 1 months notice and a month's accrued annual leave. I hand my notice in (imaginarily) on 1st September to leave by 1st October. I get paid 2 month's pay (1 month actual + 1 month accrued annual leave) on my pay day, 29th September. I start my new job on 1st October, and get paid my normal salary at the end of the month.

I've been paid everything I'm entitled to, happy days.

Scenario 2:

I have 1 months noticed and a month's accrued annual leave. I hand my notice in (imaginarily) on 1st September to leave by 1st October. My boss doesn't pass it onto HR so they say they can't process it in time so I'll have to use my next month's leave instead. I get paid 1 month's pay on my pay day, 29th September. I start my new job on 1st October. On 29th October I get paid 2 month's pay: 1 in relation to my new job, and 1 for the annual leave for my old job. I've technically been employed by two places in October.

I've been paid everything I'm entitled to but my annual leave came through a month later. Not a problem unless I have a cash flow reason to need it.

Scenario 3(what I think is being threatened here):

I have 1 months noticed and a month's accrued annual leave. I hand my notice in (imaginarily) on 1st September to leave by 1st October. My boss doesn't pass it onto HR, so they say I'll have to forfeit my annual leave in compensation for my lack of notice. I get paid 1 month's pay on my pay day, 29th September. I start my new job on 1st October. On 29th October I get paid 1 month's pay again 1.

I've not been paid everything I'm entitled to and I need to take my employer to court for wrongful deduction of wages (I think!).

So there are ways the AL thing could not result in wrongful deduction of wages I think?

Any update op?

Yes too many variables and I agree the above scenarios would work assuming she has 1 month annual leave to take.
This won't likely be the case unless her annual leave entitlement was ridiculously above the standard minimum and she hadn't taken any annual leave this year...

Exactly this 👆🏼

Just gobsmacked at the complete lack of understanding 🤦🏻‍♀️

Join a union folks!

Especially those of you saying they can’t see why OP is disadvantaged🤦🏻‍♀️

Call ACAS, they can help with this.

Look at the resignation policies, and check if this is stated in their policy (sending resignation to HR) otherwise it seems they think they can do whatever they want, when they cant.

They are obliged to pay you everything you are owed

Well the first post said she had only taken 3 days since last July, so I imagine she might well have a full month's worth to take!

My own company has.a policy that you can't roll over holidays to following years. This also raises the question as to why the OP has not taken any holidays in over a year. That in itself is illegal so if they didn't let her take holidays she has another major bone to pick with them.

This ☝ You have done everything correctly, they are obliged to pay outstanding annual leave. Write again informing HR of this and copy in CEO informing them you are taking legal advice.
Get any communications in writing, print everything off including your annual leave dates, every scrap of evidence you might need inc names of any persons involved and all contact numbers.
Nah they can't do this, your Manager cocked up not you.
Given your HR is outsourced, are they in the UK?

@Workdilemmma any update on this? Hope you are enjoying your final week of annual leave & HR have realised you'd told line manager & have stopped yanking your chain anoot deductions in this month's payroll!

Good luck for the new job, but do let us know how it all worked out!

Surely this depends when the company's annual leave year commences / ends?
For some companies, the annual leave = calendar year, but that is not always the case. At my current employer, it runs 1 Sept - 31 Aug, in the past I have had 1 April - 31 March.

OP, if you gave notice according to your contract to your manager (unless your contract has a specific notice process) you have given your notice and they cannot do anything about it. Tell them that, in writing. And yes, speak to ACAS.

Good point. Most companies I know have switched to Jan-Dec but of course not everyone has.

That’s right; my organisation is March- February.

The question you need answered is can leave entitlement be withheld on leaving in lieu of notice. Where I work, it cannot. Add to that you gave sufficient notice to your manager then I'd be fighting it.

No she won’t.

Ring ACAS to get the proper wording, then forward your resignation letter to HR with a curt cover email using ACAS’ advice.