Can my work do this? Ah!

[Workdilemmma]

So I have a new job, and gave notice (4 weeks) to my current job at the beginning of May, in writing to my manager over email. I wrote a letter of resignation and attached it and my manager wrote back and it was accepted etc.

I was told I would hear from HR regarding my left over annual leave/last day etc, but as I hadn’t heard from them I messaged today to ask if all was ok.

Well, it turns out that my manager never gave them my resignation or told them I was leaving- and HR have said that they can only accept my resignation from today’s date and if I was to leave before this, it would have to be out of my remaining annual leave balance.

I am due to finish on Friday, take a weeks annual leave and then start my new job. Can they really make me work four weeks if this wasn’t my fault? And will they take my annual leave balance from me if so?

Btw, our annual leave runs June- July and I’ve only take 3 days- so would be owed a bit I think.

Have they contacted you since you forwarded this email? If so, what have they said?
If they're holding the line about withholding your annual leave pay, I would casually mention getting legal advice.

Hurrayshadow at 17.40 explains it perfectly.

The issue is that they are saying they will not pay the annual leave.

This is illegal, OP, and you could threaten legal proceedings if they don't pay it - assuming you gave notice as per your contractual requirements and weren't meant to go directly to HR.

Hey all, sorry just got in.

they have strictly said that it will be to recoup the costs to cover me not working my notice and that I wouldn’t be paid for it. That’s what my dilemma is.

If as some were suggesting, that I take the remaining 3 weeks notice as holiday and get paid the holiday pay- fine, ends up the same money but could have emergency tax implications anyway.

For what it’s worth, our HR is two people outsourced from a larger HR company so they are not in house as such and one of them is on A/L so I can’t even get advice from the other.

but I am planning on calling ACAS tomorrow.

Dear HR,

I am kindly disposed to let you know that I have discussed my situation with the ACAS Helpdesk & I am advised of X,Y & Z.

I hope that this helps clarify my claim that I resigned correctly on (date) by UK employment law, & I will be leaving on the date agreed at the time of my resignation. I expect to be paid for x days untaken holiday leave from pro rata my annual allowance based on ACAS advice. Copies of emails about my resignation attached below.

If it will help to clarify matters further, I will accept the ACAS offer to write directly to HR Director about this situation.

Yours for not much longer,
@Workdilemmma

Takes a bow

(I got to use colour shading and everything!)

I think it's sensible to get clarity from ACAS OP and get HR to confirm, in writing, exactly what you're going to be paid for.

We have an outsourced "expert" HR company and I have had some very poor advice from them recently which has cost us time and money, so I would take what your HR people say with a significant pinch of salt.

They cannot do that.

@Workdilemmma our posts have just crossed.

Many firms will not pay up cash for yet-to-use holiday, e.g. effectively buying your holidays days off you. Fair enough.

But at least you’d take your unused holidays up to your agreed leaving date, so that although your monthly pay would be the same, you’d get the time off.

I think you need to forward a copy of the reply to your notice email from your boss to both the boss and HR and say - here is evidence I gave notice on X date. As such I'm entitled to leave on Y date and receive my holiday pay.

If you continue to insist on not paying me what I am due I will be going to ACAS and consulting with lawyers.

Put the wind up them.

I can't see that it makes any difference. OP will be paid for her holiday either way.

Suggest something along the following lines

dear HR
there seems to be a misunderstanding- I resigned in writing on date - see attached emails for your reference. Therefore in line with the notice I am required to give, my last day will
be x and I am owed y days for holiday accrued but not taken. Your suggestion that because your department was not informed by my manager, I am somehow in breach of my contract and therefore you are proposing to withhold my holiday pay is extremely heavy handed, bordering on harassment. It is outrageous that you have placed such unnecessary stress on me in my last few days with the company. Withholding my accrued holiday pay would be considered variously as a breach of contract, an unlawful deduction from wages, and/or a breach of the working time regulations which are of course a matter of health and safety law. I look forward to your confirmation that you agree my last working day is x and you will be paying my accrued holiday.

Never mind ACAS, your fucking manager should sort it. Seriously.

I would suggest you also look at the grievance process and submit one before you leave (talk to Ava’s about that). Your grievance is that you provided written notice to your manager that was accepted (provide the emails), and that you are now being told you have not served notice and to compensate then you will loose you’re accrued leave.

the solution that you want is for acknowledgment that notice was appropriately served and that they will honour the holiday pay in your final salary package (or whatever you are after).

Oh my god. No.

Say the OP earns £300 per week. She also has 3 weeks annual leave (just using these numbers for example).

OP puts in her 4 weeks notice and expects to work for 4 weeks, earning £1200. She then expects to get a lump sum of £900 when she leaves.

However as this has not happened, her HR said she can still leave at the end of her 4th week and be paid £1200, but they will retain the £900 owed to her for AL in payment for the failure to work the notice period.

So in my example the OP would then be short £900 because her manager failed to do their job.

I'd push this straight back onto the manager tomorrow and not let it lie til they have sorted it with HR.

I had a recent very similar situation. I resigned from my job as it was having an impact on my mental health - not the fault of the company, I just wasn't up to the very extreme pressures of that particular role.

My choices were to either work out my 1 month notice period (no chance, was virtually at breakdown), or to resign with immediate effect which would be considered breach of contract. I couldn't go on paid sick leave as I hadn't actually broken at that point, was just well on the way to it, and also things complicated by me still being in my probationary period.

The financial impact of this was not only was I not paid the 5 days annual leave I'd accrued as I was in breach of contract, but I had to pay THEM back 2 days worth of pay as we were paid (for the entire month) just before I left and there were 2 more days left in the month. Big local government organisation with big HR department that does everything by the book.

I think the most annoying part of it all was that they could give me 1 week notice during probation, but I was contracted to a full month notice.

Definitely use some of the terminology in this thread, shit MN is good in cases of injustice!!

✊✊

I am so surprised at how few people are getting this

It’s worth reading your contract and company policy/handbook as to the giving notice. If it states in there that you need to inform HR directly then you may need to discuss further. If they have offered for you to use your annual leave then you merely finish at the same time and the annual leave payment replaces the salary, no emergency tax complications. If the policy states you give notice to your manager, then forwarding on the acceptance should be plentiful enough. They will need to pay your final salary and annual leave on top. This will inflate the tax you pay as the system thinks you’ll be earning this amount every month but the tax will correct itself within a month or two in your next job

This has got to be the most frustrating thread I have ever read (and not your fault OP, you explained it perfectly).

Yes, definitely take it to ACAS. They are taking the piss.

I’m off to lie down for a bit as the lack of understanding has given me a headache.

Oh lord help us. How are posters not getting this?!

So sorry OP. Very sensible to contact ACAS. I would also raise a grievance against your manager. That’s a pretty huge oversight on their part.

Just tell them ok take it from today then. “I’ll be taking all my annual leave and I hope you realise that by doing this naturally I will accrue more than if I left on x date”. They need to pay you your annual leave anyway and there’s nothing to stop you starting your new job during your annual leave.

Yes they do , they PAYYOU for the two weeks holiday. You don't have two weeks of unpaid holiday ,it gets PAID. Money DOES change hands. It just doesn't get paid as a lump sum, it gets paid as if it was regular salary. As many others have said, the only financial difference would be possibly in tax. But then the lump sum would be taxed as well so minimal implications financially.

You still have the email you sent to your manager as proof?

Then all you need to do is forward this to HR and stand your ground.

It is not your issue that your manager is incompetent...

They don't have a leg to stand on as you correctly gave your notice in writing to your line manager.

People can and do have multiple concurrent jobs.

Yes. But not ones that require someone to work at the exact same time, in two roles. That being a physical impossibility.