Can my work do this? Ah!

[Workdilemmma]

So I have a new job, and gave notice (4 weeks) to my current job at the beginning of May, in writing to my manager over email. I wrote a letter of resignation and attached it and my manager wrote back and it was accepted etc.

I was told I would hear from HR regarding my left over annual leave/last day etc, but as I hadn’t heard from them I messaged today to ask if all was ok.

Well, it turns out that my manager never gave them my resignation or told them I was leaving- and HR have said that they can only accept my resignation from today’s date and if I was to leave before this, it would have to be out of my remaining annual leave balance.

I am due to finish on Friday, take a weeks annual leave and then start my new job. Can they really make me work four weeks if this wasn’t my fault? And will they take my annual leave balance from me if so?

Btw, our annual leave runs June- July and I’ve only take 3 days- so would be owed a bit I think.

OP, once you’ve given (valid) notice in line with your contractual obligations then it automatically expires on the date you’ve given. It’s not open to them to change it.

You’re also entitled to be paid in lieu of your accrued annual leave.

That’s literally how simple it is!

So no, they cannot change your notice period or make you use annual leave for it at this late stage. It’s your managers fuck up and if they don’t like it then they know who to take it up with.

And if you aren’t paid your salary, in full, for those 4 weeks, PLUS your accrued holiday, then recover it at the Employment Tribunal.

as long as they pay OP for the annual leave she's "taking", she'll be OK.

That. Is. Not. What. They. Are. Saying. They'll Do.

Dear God.

No you don't. Otherwise no-one would ever work two jobs!

Most companies don't issue P45s until their normal payroll run, so if one of our staff left on 10th May, they'd have to wait until the end of the month for their P45. It's totally normal and a new employer can continue to employ someone new without one.

They may ask that the employee completes a Starter Checklist HMRC Link

She's already worked 3 out of 4 weeks of her notice period. She only has a week left!

The company think shes only given a weeks notice, so the other three weeks when she won't be there she will forfeit her annual leave pay.

How it should have worked:

4 weeks notice - work them, get paid for them.
Leave their employment with payment for the annual pay she hadn't taken.

How they want it to work:
Consider that she has only given a weeks notice (for which she will be paid).
Keep her annual leave payments in lieu of her working the other 3 weeks notice.

Do you see, she would be down that annual leave payment.

in line with your contractual obligation

And that's the only bit OP needs to double check. It may stipulate notice needs to be given to HR. However, it's hard to argue that emailing your LM, and their acceptance of your notice, serves that function.

This 100%

This

@HurryShadow

I really wonder about some people.

You don't need the actual P45. You do need go have stopped working for Company A before you start working for Company B.

This will be reflected in your P45. I'm not saying you have to physically have it at the starting point of the new job.

OP said it in her post at 17:07

But the end result is the difference between leaving on Friday and being paid her UNUSED holiday entitlement or NOT being paid it.

As it stands she can leave on Friday, having served her notice period, as agreed by manager, and then get paid her holiday entitlement (THAT SHE IS ENTITLED TO).

HR are now moving the goalposts by saying the only way she can leave on Friday is if they withhold the holiday entitlement (THAT SHE IS ENTITLED TO BE PAID FOR), to cover the notice period that they say she hasn't given.. when she has.

Why should she have to work another two weeks to be in the same position she is now just because HR are incompetent? Yes she will get paid for another 2 weeks employment.. but she DOESN'T FUCKING WANT TO!! She wants to leave on FRIDAY!!

Instead of her salary ending on Friday and being paid for example 2 weeks accrued holidays, her leave date will be 2 weeks later so she’ll be paid right up to that date, so no financial impact.

Of course you can work 2 jobs at once! Plenty of people do!

She can get an emergency tax code if necessary, and have it recalculated a month later.

The only problem would be if either of the contracts stipulated that she couldn't work another job at the same time, or if it was a competitor so they could argue conflict of interest. She'd certainly be wise to get agreement from both jobs ahead of time (I've had to do that in the past when I hadn't wound my company up in time before starting a new job)

The reason the OP gets more holiday @HurryShadow is that she'd be accruing holiday for the 3 weeks extra work (whilst on annual leave). Whether she'd be better off financially depends on whether they count that when deciding how much a day of accrued leave should be paid at.

Fucking hell no wonder HR get away with the trickery that they do reading some of the replies on here.

her leave date will be 2 weeks later so she’ll be paid right up to that date, so no financial impact
What's wrong with people?

No she won't. They are saying to her that as she has NOT given notice, her leave is IN LIEU of this

I think once OP emails them they won't attempt this. But it's what they are saying.

Yup.

This is why I always cc’d HR when I sent in letters of resignation. You should be able to depend on the manager, but they were often one of the reasons why I was going in the first place.

I have to disagree with those saying that this is OPs managers problem. They are unlikely to give a shiny shit of HR instruct payroll not to pay the accrued holiday entitlement.

My advise if that you forward the email from HR to the HR director along with the email you sent to your manager giving notice. Tell them that you gave your notice on x days and estimate that your payment of outstanding leave to be approximately £y.

Ask them to kindly confirm that HR have advised you incorrectly and you will be paid in full. Anything other than agreement from the director should be met with a follow up email from you letting them know that you will be claiming any unpaid moneys through the small claims court procedure as long as well as the court fee and your costs.

Mark all emails as high importance and forward a copy of everything to your personal email account in case you need to take them to court.

But they don't actually PAY YOU if they are using your holiday entitlement.. no money changes hands. So you are down two weeks pay.

You only get paid back your holiday entitlement if you haven't USED them, if you USE them (to serve a notice period for example), you don't get paid back for them, it just means you don't have to actually attend work for those two weeks, then leave with nothing.

The can't do this, it would be in breach of your contract and you could take them to an Employment tribunal. Tell them you're not responsible for their mistake, raise a grievance, and see if your home insurance has legal cover or if you are a union member.

Woo wee
If you do this make sure you first send yourself all the past and future emails and correspondence to a private email address because HR often will simply deactivate your work email and work account and then you have no evidence because you can’t access your work email.

People can and do have multiple concurrent jobs.

However, the new employer might have a contract clause prohibiting secondary employment, which the OP would be in breach of if she was still considered to be in the notice period and therefore employed by the previous employer.

Having more than one job at a time also causes income tax havoc. When I had two part-time jobs concurrently, I was on the emergency tax code for one of them and had to write to HMRC every year to get a refund of overpaid tax. The OP, if employed on emergency tax code by the new employer until the old employer's P45 arrives, would have to remember to do the same in May 2024.

I do love a spreadsheet!

You have already been given good advice:

1. Check who your contract says you should hand your resignation.
2. If it is your manager as you suspect then forward the email you sent to the manager and your managers reply to HR. Also tell HR the date you are leaving as per your notice and state clearly you expect your 3 weeks holiday pay.
3. If HR come back with any crap contact your union, if you are in one, ACAS or citizens advice.

If you do this make sure you first send yourself all the past and future emails and correspondence to a private email address because HR often will simply deactivate your work email and work account and then you have no evidence because you can’t access your work email

Exactly. I meant private email account as in a non work email address.

If this is a breach of your contract then print everything out including the email headers.