Can my work do this? Ah!

[Workdilemmma]

So I have a new job, and gave notice (4 weeks) to my current job at the beginning of May, in writing to my manager over email. I wrote a letter of resignation and attached it and my manager wrote back and it was accepted etc.

I was told I would hear from HR regarding my left over annual leave/last day etc, but as I hadn’t heard from them I messaged today to ask if all was ok.

Well, it turns out that my manager never gave them my resignation or told them I was leaving- and HR have said that they can only accept my resignation from today’s date and if I was to leave before this, it would have to be out of my remaining annual leave balance.

I am due to finish on Friday, take a weeks annual leave and then start my new job. Can they really make me work four weeks if this wasn’t my fault? And will they take my annual leave balance from me if so?

Btw, our annual leave runs June- July and I’ve only take 3 days- so would be owed a bit I think.

Exactly! 'in lieu of notice annual leave will be paid' ie ' instead of you physically working here for the last 3 weeks as you normally would when working your notice and getting paid wages, we will pay/use your AL on your payslip for those 3 weeks instead/in lieu as you wont physically be here'
Your interpretation could be correct or mine could be correct, I cant see anything in the OP that absolutely rules out either situation until the OP gets further clarification

Just gonna derail a bit further here but IF HR meant they were going to pay OP her holiday pay, but the following month as if she was on annual leave (I know, I know they've said they are taking it!) But IF they were doing that then OP would actually be better off as NI is per job so there'd be that saving. The tax would work out the same eventually as PAYE is cumulative.

Also, of course you can have 2 jobs, and do not need a P45 to posters saying otherwise, unless prevented contractually. HMRC don't give a shit.

Also, of course you can have 2 jobs, and do not need a P45 to posters saying otherwise, unless prevented contractually. HMRC don't give a shit.

Yep the whole P45 thing was a nonsense and a bit of a derailment from the main issue.

Of course you can be being paid in two jobs at the same time. Especially when using up leave at the end of one job and starting a new one before the end of that leave.

Fuck me

This has pissed me off reading this thread and I'm only halfway through.

Honestly, dense is too lenient.

Yes what on earth did they do when reference request from a new employer came through…..

Go against HR and write it themselves lol …and only now HR are in charge of charging someone’s leaving date! Of course!

By heck, I am now rather grateful for my situation where my Manager was contacted quite premature on a simple ‘conditional’ offer as he said he simply couldn’t write a reference and on passing to HR they would then know/process I was leaving. Glad now to hold them (ex employer) over a barrel and get 2.5 weeks notice instead of 1 week.

Imagine the damage a late reference request could do in this situation; by heck again.

Yes Earrings I agree that it would be impossible for the OP to be physically present and working 2 different jobs in different locations at the same time. But OP has said they will be stopping current role when they planned to. So what do you think is stopping them from starting to work at the new job, even if the hours and days are the same? They won't be performing work at the old place at the same time as the new one. HMRC don't check people's employment contracts or rotas to check for diary clashes. The new employer won't either if they turn up ready for work. You are being very obtuse.

Assuming OP has 20 days leave accrued.

Option 1
Notice on 01/05 to leave on 26/05
Takes 5 days leave 22/05-26/05
Final day of employment 26/05 = Paid until 26/05
15 days of accrued leave owed and paid (equivalent to being paid until 16/06)

Option 2
Notice on 17/05 to leave on 14/06
Takes 18 days leave 22/05-14/06
Final day of employment 14/06 = Paid until 14/06
2 days of accrued leave owed and paid (equivalent to being paid until 16/06)

FINANCIALLY IT IS THE SAME (or as @HurryShadow showed, Option 2 might leave you slightly better off as you could accrue more leave between 26/05 and 14/06, also, 29/05 is a bank holiday so that could mean you are owed 3 days leave with option 2 and will get an extra day paid)

People saying you can't start at new employer if you have not left the old one are talking absolute rubbish. People can have 2 or more concurrent jobs - millions already do. The PAYE system is set up to accommodate this. Assuming you have nothing weird with your tax situation, with either option shown above, your new employer you will put you on 1257LM1 tax code (the "month 1 emergency tax code") until you obtain and present them with your P45. When this is processed by payroll at your new employer, you will go to 1257L and you will end up paying the same amount of tax, and the tax will be correct.

PS. I have worked overlapping jobs before - it suited me, the old employer and the new employer.

They're trying it on OP, don't let them.

You have written proof not only of submitting the notice but of confirmation of its reciept.

Are you in a union? If not, speak to ACAS first thing in the morning.

I've only read your updates but I'm sure you've had some great advice.

This isn't your problem at all, and they're trying to make it your problem. Any deduction of leave would be a clear case of unlawful deduction of wages at tribunal - in fact so clear, it would never go to tribunal, and they know it.

Make sure you have forwarded those emails both to and from your manager to your personal email and keep them safe, as well as correspondence from HR.

Write something firm saying you already had the resignation accepted on x date and therefore will be leaving as planned on Friday with your full leave paid up to date.

Keep the hardball stuff up your sleeve. If they're fairly aggressive before you leave, you can add something like, I do not agree to any deduction from my annual leave as I followed due process. Any deduction will be an unlawful deduction of wages and I will be looking to seek a claim for this at tribunal.

Personally I'd stay calm, leave as planned, and then wait for my last payslip. Then write a revised version of my last paragraph threatening them with tribunal if anything was missing, along with confirmations of dates of correspondence etc. It may come to nothing and work itself out.

Similar happened to me when I left a job. I waited until I got the payment, sent the above and they folded immediately and paid. Admittedly they called it a 'gesture of goodwill to close the matter' rather than admitting they screwed up but whatever, the result was the same!

No she doesn't she'd simply complete a Starter Checklist for her new job - the issue would be she'd have to tick option C (I have another job or pension) & she'd be put straight onto the BR tax code meaning she'd be paying 20% tax on all earnings in the new job until they receive a coding notice to correct her tax code which would only be issued once her old job submits the P45 info to HMRC.

they have strictly said that it will be to recoup the costs to cover me not working my notice and that I wouldn’t be paid for it

That’s where they have it wrong though. You HAVE worked your notice. It’s a ‘them problem’ they have a manager who didn’t pass the information on and any resultant costs are a ‘them problem’. They need to cop a loss and go through whatever counselling/training process as needed with the manager. Has nothing to do with you.

I’d tell them they are incorrect and will get a letter from my solicitor.

people can hold more than one job at a time

I guess some of you have never heard of the gig economy 😕

I work 4 jobs, 2 are PAYE and 2 are consultancy roles though my own ltd. HMRC have no issues with this. But this is not what the OP was asking. She was asking about unlawful deductions.

I think your work are wrong in not accepting your real resignation date. But I also think you are misunderstanding what they are saying and if they are going to make you use annual leave to leave the date you want to, well it makes no difference to you either way. For example (made up dates and numbers)

You believe you are leaving on the 1st June and will be paid up to that day plus have 5 days of unused leave paid out.

HR say no you are leaving on the 6th June but you can take annual leave from the 1st June, we will pay you until the 6th but no unused leave left.

Either way, it doesn’t impact you. Even though HR are being silly.

It impacts OP as she won't get paid for her unused A/L.

But she will be paid until the 6th rather than the 1st! So it is the same. I have just written that right there and you quoted it!

Their problem not yours. You did your part in notifying Management. The fact that the manager made the error in not sending to HR is irrelevant as you fulfilled your part of the contract so I would forward the evidence you have & say something like

“due to the error being on the part of management please ensure I am not unfairly discriminated against in regard to the leave entitlement as mentioned in your previous email. Any monies etc lost due to this gross incompetence may result in me taking legal action through tribunal”

basically not your fault not your problem to solve

Employment lawyer here. If you have resigned within the terms of your contract (you appear to have done so) then they cannot withhold holiday pay. This is called Unlawful Deduction from Wages under the Employment Rights Act and can be actioned before an Employment Tribunal to claim it, without cost to you. Go see Citizen's Advice if they try it on.

They didn't know? So who's been given them references etc

Why?

If they want to take it as annual leave than that's fine. You will get money later than expected but also get annual leave accrued on those days you took as annual leave. So the company is worse of

This happened to me a few months ago. I forwarded the resignation email to HR as proof and it was accepted and I received my AL money no problem.

Forward HR the email you sent your manager and their acceptance, if you followed the process then they need to desk with their own error

This thread is a fucking car crash. 😂