to not want people to judge those who recieve benefits????

[TidyTink]

Im a single mother of one,

i was working up until my DD (3) was born, rather than take a part time job that i knew i would always be stuck in i decided to get to college and study asubject that will lead me to a very hard working and well paid job so that i can fully support my DD in the future.

I hate recieving benefits and cannot wait untill i have finished my degree

Once i start at work i will be paying enough taxes in the future to more than cover the benefits ive recieved over the few yrs.

So why does everyone assume your a complete waste of space?? not all of us take advantage of the system!!!!

What sort of society would we be living in if people were not able to have children before they could afford them? In our present circumstances we cannot afford to have any more children which is fine as I don't want anymore. If I did then we'd have to sell our house etc but we choose to live where we live in a house with large mortgage etc.

just to pick up on one point. I don;t think there is any correlation between hours worked and pay levels. I have owrked very hard long hours when I was in a massively well paid job indeed it was expected. I know people who work equally hard and long becasue their pay per hour is low and they need the extra money that working two jobs or doing overtime makes.

I have no doubt our benefit system needs overhauling but some of the comments on here show a startling lack of exposure to various different sections of society. I thnk thats sadder than giving beneift to someone who doesn't need it.

Presumably those of you who disagree with giving benefits to those who don't need it send your child benefit back?

Spokette, no, the brokers are not employed by the banks. They are the same as independant financial advisors in the UK although IME quite a bit lower down the food chain. Lots of them are being investigated And your link relates to Credit Suisse who, like all the rest, have been struck down by the US mortgage crisis.

Here's a very good article that gives a neat explanation of what is happening in Banking at the moment and the cause/effect. Yes there are bankers at the top but there were also those between them and the houseowner taking their turn quite willingly - the booming construction industry for example - and at the bottom was the very strong demand for affordable homes.

Well, if I did want another child then I probably wouldn't go ahead and have it because I wouldn't want to sell up and go on benefits. But I firmly believe the option should be there for others to do so. I would hate to think anyone who wanted more children didn't because of not being able to manage money wise.

mrsruffallo, i am saying you should be able to take out what you haven't paid in. 99% of people can work but don't. Disabled people can work and do work so why can't able bodied little wankers work too.

Like people who take years off work because off depresson. As a long term sufferer of depression i know that depression gets worse if you isolate yourself. Your much better off being at work around people. After people have had their paid time off do they really think they are gonna just go back to work 'cured?' I don't think so. People will always make excuses not to work because they are allowed to get away with it.

Xenia, it's a shit point. There is never a good time in your life to have children. There will always be things in your way either fiancially, emotionally, or career. But you just work around these things and adapt.

Hercules - point taken.

But let me ask this then. I absolutely understand that there are situations out of ones control that can mean needing benefits and thank goodness for that lifeline. There absolutely are times and situations where benefits are rightfully given.

But there are dozens of young couples i know who are holding off on starting a family until they are in the financial situation to (for want of a better phrase) 'afford them'. Equally i know of couples who would love more children but finances simply dont allow them too.

What if everyone in this society had children - in the numbers they wanted, when they wanted? Without any regard to their financial situation. Should everyone do that?

Squiffy meant to say btw - earlier post was fab!

But people can have as many children as they want already. THose people putting if off could go and ahead and have children now and throw themselve at the state. I could go and have 10 children if I wished, give up my job and get enough money from the state to live. I choose not to though as I don't want 10 kids and I don't want to claim benefit.
So I don't your scenario would happen as it's clearly not happening now.

Xenia - wasn't that a LibDem policy (that will never come to pass because they will never get in)? I can see some merit in it. Are there any countries who have that policy and does it work? For people who are not working because they would lose their benefits if they did, it would remove that obstacle and incentivise them to work.

I just took the title of this thread at face value and assumed it was about morality, not practicality or finance or politics. I know at least one person who is fiddling their benefits, claiming housing benefit while renting a room out, claiming IS while working CIH. There are a lot of these people. BUT, as a principle, DON'T judge ALL people by these people. Don't generalise because you demoralise the unfortunate at the same time as you are condemning the dishonest.

One thing is for sure, its far too expensive to have children in this country!

I guess what I am saying is that there are some people who do hold off until the circumstances are right. there are others who dont and let the state support them.

so are you saying the people who hold off on having children shouldnt and let the state support them? is that really a responsible attitude?

I agree children are expensive but i also think that people spend way beyond their means for the pure sake of "keeping up with the Jones."

I mean why anyone would buy a £300 pushchair is beyond me? Unless your Victoria Beckam maybe?

What I am saying is that not being able to afford to have children shouldn't be a reason not to have children. That doesn't mean everyone is going to rush out and have kids willy nilly as that system already exists now.
By that reckoning some people will never be able to have children. Why should having children just be a luxury of people who have money or the ability to work?

But far more money is being spent on other things less needy than poor parents. WHat about the amount of money gone into Northern Rock? I would rather my taxes go to help support someone who is not working, pays no rent etc whilst I work and pay a hefty mortgage than to a bank.
I also disagree that parents on benefits are bringing up their kids to have no aspirations.

"i am saying you should be able to take out what you haven't paid in."

Sorry that was should't not should.

Yes, well I've always been a bear of little brain.
(I'm just going to kick that guy's bottom again.)

I feel a pertinent point has been missed.

Most people who have children they cannot support without state help were, in fact, perfectly able to support them at the time the decision was made to have them.

But lives change, and children are not cats, they can't be given to a new home if you can't afford to keep them any more.

That is true because if lets be honest here, if everyone had kids when they could really afford them there wouldn't be very many kids born nowadays.