to not want people to judge those who recieve benefits????

[TidyTink]

Im a single mother of one,

i was working up until my DD (3) was born, rather than take a part time job that i knew i would always be stuck in i decided to get to college and study asubject that will lead me to a very hard working and well paid job so that i can fully support my DD in the future.

I hate recieving benefits and cannot wait untill i have finished my degree

Once i start at work i will be paying enough taxes in the future to more than cover the benefits ive recieved over the few yrs.

So why does everyone assume your a complete waste of space?? not all of us take advantage of the system!!!!

i know i made a generalisation that is not true for everyone, but i would be extremely doubtful if in general people worked the same number of hours in their job across the whole income spectrum. maybe i'm wrong, but i don't think so.

Squiffy, I wrote "avaricious, deceitful, mendacious, amoral, irresponsible parasites that prey on the vulnerable to line their own pockets" and I stand by every word in relation to those people and companies who have deliberately misled, missold and abused their position of trust to line their own pockets.

You appear to want to lay the blame of the US crisis at the feet of the mortgage brokers with a few token bankers but conveniently forget that banks themselves employed many of these mortgage brokers (don't they give out mortgages) and they themselves pounced on the CLO market because they saw it an a easy way of making money, hence Northern Rock's troubles .

What bothers me is how those in the financial instiutions seem incapable or unwilling to acknowledge their culpability in the current banking crisis. Its funny, that when the economy is booming, city folk claim credit for it and say it is down to their invaluable, essential hard work (ROFLMHO). The minute things go wrong, it is not down to them, it is due to the downturn in the economy, the numpties lower down the food chain, blah, blah, blah

Please.

This is just the tip of the iceburg and guess what, it won't be those responsible suffering the financial pain, unfortunately.

Just because you have the money and spend it, Winnie, doesn't mean you need it!

Your last post looks to me like a great argument for more redistribution, by the way - if an extra £100k would make so little difference to a rich person maybe we should share it out among 10 poorer families and change their lives completely! Hell, it's not like you'd even notice - 'it doesn't go far' as you say....
( in case you think this is a serious suggestion - it's not, but it does make the point of how bad for society it is to have some people earning so much more than others.)

BTW i run my own business, but am off on maternity leave and am living on mat allowance plus a savings plan i had to redeem early. People who work for me get paid far more on an hourly rate than i do, (plus the benefits of being employed) but i hope that that will change within the next couple of years. Setting up my business i was working for much less than the minimum wage for the first couple of years.

oh yes i am off to work now with my 2 month old baby, having had to go to work since she was 2 weeks old.

I don't have any preconceptions about which income level works the longest hours on average Suey - you will see many examples of both easy and madly long hours at all levels. My questions was about the people who have similar issues to you regarding long hours and work in central London but can't afford the million pound house, and whether you agree that they 'need' one too. Or are you saying people like that don't exist?

think this thread calls for 'life swap'

when you are in the situation (whatever it may be) - the difficulties you encounter are obviously very real. And the grass can look greener.

Think suey hit the nail on the head yesterday.

My guess is that what pisses people off is the lack of community spirit or societal conscience. This applies to both fat cats (of whom there are remarkeably few and mostly in the private sector) and those who are able to work but choose not to- of whom there seem to be a larger than expected percentage. Most of us will not fit into that category and therefore feel justified in sticking up for themselves and the people they know.

If you're on mat allowance you're not meant to be working are you? I thought the rules were very strict.

i am saying that i believe them to be very few.

"My guess is that what pisses people off is the lack of community spirit or societal conscience. "

I agree with you about that Dal.

suey i would be laughing at you if your attitude didn't stink so badly. I work 13 hour days and weekends and my salary is 25,000 p/a. I do a public service job. My house cost 177000 and we struggle every month. My need to see my family is just as strong as yours. Absolutely disgusting comment.

I'd agree with your there, Dal,about the lack of community spirit too. And that it goes for those who don't contribute to society.

But it seems to me that those who don't work when they could are generally the ones with the least opportunities in life, and to me it seems worse then when fat cats, who have everything materially they could, begrudge paying into society.

Also, there generally seems more venom directed at the 'benefit cheats' than the 'tax cheats', egged along by media owners who, lets face it, have a lot more in common with the latter

It's a matter of degrees though Winnie. I'm not arguing for a Communist society - we do have to have a society where people have an incentive to work hard for themselves and their families - but I think at the moment we have got the balance wrong particularly wrt the very high earners and we need to be more redistributive. Obviously not everyone here agrees with this.

I do think, though, that the general lack of social responsibility in many big firms needs to be addressed. The businesspeople I most admire are the 18th and 19th century Quakers who managed to get rich despite treating their workers better than almost everyone else at the time and charging what they considered 'a fair price' rather than the highest price they could get away with.

I agree with Fluff. Suey's comment was ignorant .

What pisses me off the most is the amount of people who claim SSP. Most of which can do some form of work but choose to abuse the system instead.

We have had a baker off for 5 mths so far with a bad back. It's clear that he won't be able to come back and do the job because it is heavy lifting work. So instead of finding other another job where it doesn't involve strain on his back he is claiming ssp. A bad back does not get better by staying at home for 6 mths. He would benefit more in a job where it's less straign on his back and surely anyone with a bad back knows that light movement to your back does t good. Sitting there doing nothing makes your back worse!

If it's the job that is making you ill/unable to work then FIND ANOTHER JOB. DON'T claim ssp for 6 mths then decide you don't want to continue in your job anymore. It fucks everyone off finding cover etc when you know full well your not coming back. If you decide you want to take some time out to rest ect then do it in your own time, not at the tax payers expense!

I am well aware that there are plenty of genuine cases but not enough imo.

Or John Lewis

Poor and rich people work hard. I've never said otherwise. I've had phases of working a day and a night on some deal or other. It's quite fun but not on a long term basis. I know you can work very very hard and long hours of high pay and for low pay. What we need to remove is the incentives not to work. If we paid everyone an income regardless of their employment status that would help so you'd get and keep that whether you worked or not and abolish benefits at the same time. It would help non working parents and also help those who work for less than they would get if they were on benefits nad it would remove the black economy at a stroke too.

As for banks etc there are free markets and businesses operate as you would expect in those markets. When there's a need to help the poor and sick then communities and businesses help the poor and sick. It has always been so.

I like the idea of the new well notes instead of sick notes. The doctor will say yes he's hurt his back but he is capable of doing XYZ. That will be fun for all those who skive off pretending to be ill for no good reason.

i am also infuriated by quattro's remarks about not having children untill you can support them.some peoplr really have no fucking idea about real life,do they?

winnie(?)-your mother didn't work 14 hours a day/xmas day,to support people who choose not to work.i think that is one of the points of this thread,isnt it,that the amount of taxpayers' money that actually goes towards benefits is relativley small?

what has also got to me in this thread is the idea that those women/teenagers who do see having a baby and going on benefits as a lifestyle choice(there are plenty of them up here,but it is an area of high unemployment and many people who have been born and bred here dont seem to realise that there is life beyond the next town{plus there needs to be about 50 years worth of catching up to do when it comes to sexual equality}),then go on to sit on their arse all day.since when has looking after small children been so easy?

What does Quattro consider being able to support them? Is there a certain amount of money we must earn? What a vile comment

msrr-i dont know,but maybe she would like a return to the days when women married to men who beat the shit out of them had to stay married in order to support the children they'd chosen to have

I also think that anyone who does choose to come and live in this country should have been here worked for at least 5 years and payed taxes in that time before they are can even consider using the NHS, housing, child benefit etc.

As wonderful as would be to help everyone, we simply cannot afford to payout as much as we are without having the funds paid in the "kitty" in the first place.

In fact that should for anyone. Pay taxes for a minimum of 5 years before you can have ANYTHING. This country has GOT to toughen up.

Quite impractical BtoB- What are you on about?

But isn't it an important point - many people do limit their families or put off having children until they're nearly 40 because they cannot afford it and always have done even back in the 20s you'd get men waiting until they could support a wife before marrying. It's particularly hard for first wives who wanted a 3 rd child, husband forbid it on cost grounds, then he goes off with new lover, has 3 more children there and as a result payments to the first family go right down.

hi i havent read all the posts but just thought i would add a bit
to the OP your situation is the exact reason why benefits are a godsend. i am a student nurse and not eligable for benefits even though i have a DD simply because my DH is working. we dont bring in enough money to pay all of our bills so i have to work an extra job to make ends meet. it is the people who are unable to work whilst doing a degree or suchlike that really do deserve the help that benefits can bring.
however not all people who claim benefits are claiming them for such honest reasons. a friend of mine claimed every benefit available under the pretence that she was a single SAHM of a DD and a DS. she had a partner who lived with her who worked and earned over £1500 per month and she had told the benefits system that she lived alone. she also went as far as to put 'father unknown' on both childrens birth certificates to avoid any recall of benefits or any investigations etc. last year she went to brussels funded by her benefits to have a boob job. she sits in the lap of luxury in her newly renovated house paid for by the benefits system watching her 42 inch plasma screen HD TV eating takeaways everynight and going out on expensive nights out every week. i know of a few people who live like this. she is not interested in working and brags about how much money she has got. i think that this is the main reason for the stigma around benefits. they are there for people who NEED them and they are constantly being claimed by the few who wish for nothing more than to sit on their arses leeching off the system.
it makes me feel so annoyed and a little TBH that my DH and i have to work bloody hard to pay our bills and she sits and sneers at us as we are paying tax and effectively contributing to her lifestyle. she is fit and healthy and both of her children go to school/nursery full time so she has the time to work etc that is the case for some who make the system so much harder for those (such as yourself) who genuinely are trying to build a better life for their children.
i wish alot of others had the same outlook
xx ei xx