To think a secondary school choir rejecting an 11 year old based on their voice is horrible?

[tigerdrew]

Just had DD come in upset. It's quite random as it's the middle of the night and a weekend and we had a nice day today, told me she is still sad about how she is a bad singer and she doesn't want to see her music teacher as she is too embarrassed etc etc

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s.

AIBU to think a school choir should just be for whoever is interested? When kids are all singing in a group they do sound the same anyway! Obviously maybe solos could be kept for the particularly talented but I'm honestly just a bit sad and even annoyed.

I think YABU. I was in my school choir and if someone was off key, the teacher would go over that section to try to figure out who it was to help get them in key again. It wasn't done nastily and more to help that person reach the correct note, but if your DD isn't a good singer, surely it'll be worse being in the choir and constantly being the one singing out of key and not being able to fix it?
I think it would be cruel to pretend she can sing well and having her ending up embarrassed after performances.

Eleganz
I agree. Different groups have different purposes and it's difficult to be all things to all people.

If the purpose of Choir A is a community choir/open access choir/singing club then it will have a different set of requirements (probably turn up and want to sing) than Choir B that focuses on large scale classica performances/competitions/ developing musical talent/providing a breadth of repertoire so choristers are versatile (probably expecting confident music reading and good vocal tone). Choir C might be a glee club/rock and pop choir so they might audition for vocal style and tone, but due to learning by ear/rote and group members working together to arrange parts they might not require confident score reading. Choir D is a chamber choir and requires 8-16 people who are not only good choristers, but have the ability to hold parts in smaller numbers and be confident enough not to rely on the person next to them.

Not everyone will be right for Choirs A, B, C, and D.

No I'm not, the school football teams at our local schools all run try outs every year. You don't just get to play.

The way you phrased it, it seems you think all 11 year olds cant sing.
Thats not true. Ive seen 11 year olds who can absolutely sing, and would give any pop singer a run for their money.

If the choir has auditions, they wont accept just anyone. You need to be able to sing. Which clearly isnt the case with your daughter.

If they accepted anyone, there would be no auditions. Youd just apply to be a part of it.

And yes, people should definitely be told if they cant do something. Otherwise you get the Pop Idol contestants who cannot hold a tune whatsoever, but who say that everyone always told them they could sing! Its just embarrassing.

Are you sure there isn't an open one too? In Y 7 there is usually a choir that anyone can join, and an audition based one.

Of course they want the best singers, most school choirs enter competitions.
it’s a life lesson, yr child wasn’t up to the standard so didn’t get in. They could choose to have lessons to improve or just accept their voice isn’t choir standard.

That’s life sadly . Everyone can’t be good at everything . Find something they are good at

We had the same in primary school. Sports were always the same too, only the most able kids would make the cut. I don’t really have an issue with that.

If she can't sing she'll spoil the sound of the rest of the choir.
The idea is that you choose people with good voices, ideally perhaps also with a knowledge of music.
I had a good voice but couldn't sight read so I wasn't chosen either.
You're encouraging her to be entitled, better to encourage her to get involved in something she can actually do well.

Sorry yabu, kids can go to the sports club for practice because that won't impair on any one else playing and they likely don't get picked for the team.A bad singer affects the whole choir trying to learn and sing nicely in unison and at my child's school they are always practicing for the next thing they are signing at which I imagine hers will be too.

My son tried out for violin and guitar and never got picked it is what it is.

My daughter went to compulsory choir on Tuesday lunchtime in year 7. After 3 weeks the choir master called her in for a chat! Got her to sing the songs they had started learning and my Jean been happily sang them all as she had spent hours learning them all. He looked at her and said ‘you are not messing around are you’. Seeing as she wasn’t he excused her from choir practice meaning once a week she sat alone. Every time the choir went out she was stuck in school despite lessons being cancelled. I was gutted for her tbh and it knocked her confidence so much to be the only one out of 100+ girls excluded. Never felt it was a kind thing to do.

Oh come on. We should be preparing our children for adulthood, and yes they should know that rejection is a part of life.
If you’re too precious OP you’re not going to prepare your dd well enough, and she will not be in a strong position to thrive when she’s older.
If you already know that singing is not one of her skills, then you could have managed this before the audition by making it clear that it’s great to try out, but that not everyone will get picked. You could have let her know kindly in advance that her skills lie elsewhere, and if she’d been prepared for a possible rejection then it would not have been such a big deal.
You can also remind her that for many big stars, they too faced rejection, but stood up and carried on. You could also find the clip of Ed Sheeran being interviewed where he plays himself singing in his early teens - it was horrible 😂 Maybe get her singing lessons if she really wants to sing?
Whatever you do, it’s now up to you to show her the way forward and through this, and she’ll hopefully come out stronger for it 💪🏻

I had the same, in junior school.

I Don't think I was terribly upset, but on the other hand I do remember it. I am a very bad singer so it may have been the case of being beyond a bit of subtle help from the choir leader.

This post doesn't make any sense to me?

YABU
It’s a choir. If she’s not good then she’s not good. End of. Kids can’t be great at everything.

😂 I just noticed that ha ha

@tigerdrew , the improving and learning is done in the music lessons, and your child is still welcome to take these I suppose. The choir is for those with a good voice and able to keep the tone 🤷🏼‍♀️ It's like playing netball in the PE lessons but not being picked for the competition. I thinknyou gave your daughter false hope encouraging her to take the audition.

It’s not the holy grail to be in a school choir anyway.

From what I remember at school there was a bit of buzz about choir auditions after the posters went up around our secondary school.

Then lots of kids found it really boring and decided they didn’t want to stay late after school ( putting out and clearing away all the chairs in the hall and practising the same songs over and over) and left. Then others left because their mates weren’t doing it.

Your dd may still get in if that happens!

Headmistress in primary school told me to mime. Primary school fgs, at that age just let the children sing, especially as it was just singing in class in the music lesson. Mortifying, even at 9 or 10, to be singled out in front of the whole class and told that you're so shit at something that you shouldn't participate.

Crap voices can be hidden in a choir. Singing is joyous and should be open to everyone. Absolute rubbish that a school choir would audition. I feel really strongly about this. I sing and am not too bad. Out of principle I would never sing for a choir that holds auditions.

Well yes! Something like singing is hard to learn I think… I would assume if you’re bad, you’re bad and no amount of lessons would change that? I don’t know! But I think your daughter needs to accept this isn’t for her and try something else!

Haven't read the full thread but my school had two choirs - one for all comers and one that was audition only. I would have thought that most secondary schools were big enough to support both.

Erm…yes! Do you really tell kids they are good at something they’re not? They have a long way to fall. Best know your weaknesses… and your strengths.
you could get her singing lessons and try to improve it if she’s really bothered.

A school choir holds auditions, then tells eleven year olds they're not good enough to participate - and people on here are agreeing with that? The plain truth is that EVERYONE can sing, provided they have working vocal cords. They just need to be taught properly. Back when I was at a bog standard state comprehensive, our brilliant music teacher never held auditions for the choir, although he did for the solo roles, later on. But that was fine, because by then, we were all involved. Everyone who wanted to work at it was welcome and we even won prizes, although that was never his main aim. He just wanted to show us the ability we all had. It's like youth theatre - some kids are natural stars, but the really good directors are the ones who choose the right material, exclude nobody, instil confidence and achieve amazing results. Especially at eleven or twelve. Why must everything be so competitive, so young? I agree with you OP. It's pernicious nonsense. And when you look back over this thread, there are so many people who clearly fell victim to the same nonsense when they were young and have gone through life believing it. Nobody should have to pay for singing lessons for their child to join a school choir. Have we all taken leave of our senses?

I auditioned for my school choir in year 4 and 5 before finally getting in in year 6. I don't think year 7 is too early to learn how to pick yourself up and try again.

A few things. Firstly one child off key can effect the others. I remember one of my dc's year in juniors sounded terrible. Absolutely a hoard of droners. I was a bit puzzled by this as I knew three or four who had lovely voices, but singing together they reverted to this drone. None of my other dc's year groups had this issue.
One performance they sang beautifully with most of the year except a few who had speaking parts, then for the last song they all sang together, including the narrators who had not joined in until that point-and the last song was back to the drone. It was unfortunately immediately obvious that the culprit was one absolutely lovely confident little girl who belted out the songs at the top of her voice-and totally off key, taking the rest of the year with her.

Secondly the choir may be doing competitions or shows, in which case they are looking for the best. Would it be worse for her to practice the songs with the choir, and then be told not to come to the competitions? I think so.
I know the school choir I eventually made would be invited to a number of events over the year, and they also entered competitions-and won more often than not.

And also, singing is something you can do on your own, or in a group. It costs nothing. So if your dc wants to join a choir they can try practicing on their own. It's not like football or something like that which is hard to do alone.
So encourage her to sing to herself, to practice, see how she can get the notes and maybe she can get better to try again another time.