To think a secondary school choir rejecting an 11 year old based on their voice is horrible?

[tigerdrew]

Just had DD come in upset. It's quite random as it's the middle of the night and a weekend and we had a nice day today, told me she is still sad about how she is a bad singer and she doesn't want to see her music teacher as she is too embarrassed etc etc

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s.

AIBU to think a school choir should just be for whoever is interested? When kids are all singing in a group they do sound the same anyway! Obviously maybe solos could be kept for the particularly talented but I'm honestly just a bit sad and even annoyed.

Meh it's double sided imo. Every time she gets knocked back, you can't insist it's unfair. So that's something about resilience and you sorting through your feelings and hers.

But then at 11...do people in this thread really think a tone deaf kid is going to spoil it so badly for others that she should have to miss out on something that brings her joy? Get real. She might do three weeks and realise she's crap and leave. But at least she tried. I don't care if there was an audition, it's good to have those anyway but it's not a competition is it? They would have taken everyone if they were great. Not a 1st 2nd 3rd situation. There's room for everyone. I'm sure all the world's best singers would still have made it despite a few less talented peers in the school choir.

I would just email and say daughter is upset and will there be any other singing clubs she can join. They might consider their options. An informal singing group or something with no auditions.

I’m a music teacher and this is shocking. School choirs should be inclusive or at least there should be a separate auditioned choir. I was told as a child never to sing and here I am teaching music and leading singing with kids. Choir was compulsory at uni for music students and there are many instrumental players who really can’t sing that well but through years of rehearsals we were taught how to improve. Our uni also had a separate auditioned choir but the main choir was for all music students and additional students who wanted to sing.

I hear what people say about sports teams being selective but they still encourage all the kids to go along and play non competitively.

I wouldn’t go quoting Gareth malone though - he’s often runs auditioned choirs. But there are many many inclusive choirs about. Professionally paid choirs should be able to be selective. But singing is for everyone.

YABU

My dd’s school has an audition only school for the lower school (so from yr7) as well as the upper school.

She was going in for an audition, so it must have been clear she could be rejected. Would you have felt the same way if she got in, and others were rejected?

I’m totally tone deaf. I think I got banned from choir in about year 5. And yeah, I did feel a bit rejected. The only time it really bugged me though was in secondary when all the auditions for the drama productions were also based on singing ability. There were no spaces based on acting or narrating (as an adult I’m a decent public speaker) or even for back stage elements. I hope your dd is feeling stronger this morning, and she finds her thing that she enjoys and is good at. Year 7 can be a steep learning curve, especially if primary was quite gentle and inclusive.

Ps my Dd can’t sing a note so didn’t go for it

Well, I'm with you in that I encourage my kids to try out anything they're interested in. However - I also make sure they understand if they're not picked, it is not a reflection on them as a person and although they might not have been the best person for the <whatever> at this time, they will be for something else.

I'm sorry she's upset. But no, it's not unfair. It's your job to bolster her and get her to dry her eyes and either practice until she's better at singing, or give something else a go that she might like.

Choir is a team sport I guess. You perform badly, you affect the output of the whole team.

There is a difference between individual performances, where if you are challenged at the subject you only affect yourself, and team ones. In individual performances if you are no good the only person you affect is yourself. In team performances you take the whole team down with you.

Should school football teams just rotate all the kids that want to be in them because it's fairer, or only have the best players ?

My daughter got rejected for the school choir when she was in year 3, she was quite disappointed, she also got rejected in years 4 and 5. She finally made it in year 6 and the same teacher who had rejected her for the last 3 years told her she had a really good singing voice and why hadn't she auditioned before! We still laugh about that now.

I think it's important for children to learn how to cope with disappointment.

Your kid needs to toughen up. You are failing her if you don’t prepare her for things like this. She is going to flounder as an adult if you don’t start being a parent.

I think they should have an auditioned choir which does competitions, say, and one for everyone who just wants to sing in a group, because the others may well improve just by being able to practice. DD2 wanted to go to a particular school because they did cheerleading, but it was only an auditioned squad and she didn't get in, in spite of having done years of dance and gymnastics, and kids who had no experience at all got in. It just seemed so random and I think schools should be more inclusive and be about letting kids have a go at as many activities as possible otherwise it just favours the middle class/upper middle who can afford for their kids to try lots of things and then be good at auditions!

Should school football teams just rotate all the kids that want to be in them because it's fairer, or only have the best players?

How do you know who the best players are without having a club they can go to which teaches them the sport more in depth than in PE lessons?

That is exactly what my parents would’ve said to me. I’m a terrible singer. I was in the school choir as they needed numbers. My DF often remarked on how he couldn’t believe I was in it.

Depends if there are limited spaces. If they can only take 35 kids and 35 audition 10 get rejected.

What do you suggest I do when my 11 year old comes and tells me they really want to be in the choir and has an audition the next days lunch break. Say oh absolutely don't bother, you're shit at singing. I don't think she is even bad, she sounds like an 11 year old singing. Don't get me wrong, she doesn't have an amazing natural talent but nor is she someone who is completely out of time

Little Tiger..... just so you are aware you might not get in to the choir. You have to be a really good singer to be accepted. By all means give it a go and try out but there may be some other girls there who are better at singing than you like you are better at some things sport/writing/painting than they are. You cannot be good at everything and we all have different talents. Maybe we can see if there are local singing lessons we could send you to since you enjoy singing so much. You can try again then next year.

FFS OP, a bad singer can throw the whole choir off, they don't accept kids who cannot sing, what is the point of that?: That's like me as a PE teacher picking someone for the gymnastics team who cannot do a tumble...just to be inclusive. It makes no sense. Your daughter needs to learn resilience, acceptance and understanding that she cannot be good at everything. They gave her a go and she didn't cut it, she will excel elsewhere.

It was always very clear to me what I was good and not so good at whilst I was at school. Everybody is surely?

I agree with the OP. I think all secondary schools (and primary schools for that matter) should have a non-auditioned choir that anyone can join.

I also think secondary schools should also have a smaller auditioned choir for better singers.

She said she sounds like an 11 year old singing. IMO that's not choir material

When people say "choir that anyone can join" they mean "anyone who can sing can join", don't they? But not based on perfect matching voice?

Schroedingersimmigrant
I think some seems to mean anyone who wants to go should be able to, regardless of skill, vocal tone or ability to hold a tune. Anything else is mean and going to cause lasting damage for life.

The problem is that in many areas there's not the staff, resources or funding to run extensive ensemble provision so there's got to be a trade off.

Some people think that talented musicians and those with musical potential should fewer opportunities to develop in order to prioritise a "singing/music for all" approach. Others acknowledge that to improve representation in the arts and culture areas there needs to be opportunities for talented musicians who aren't loaded to develop, so think that having an audition process from secondary school is a logical thing to do.

In an ideal world everywhere would have both and parents would be a bit more realistic with their DC about their skills, but it's far from ideal in school music at the moment.

Sorry but rejection is part of life & builds resilience. Maybe the teacher could have been a bit softer but at the end of the day just because she auditioned never meant she was ever going to be chosen.

I was in the choir in year 7 and then was asked to switch to narration, poetry recital and stand up comedy segments for the shows in later years. I was the light relief for the parents
I would encourage her to find something she else she enjoys. Bad singing is hell for other people in the choir (and the parents suffering the shows!). I'm sure she could try something else.

Was the orchestra unauditioned at your university? Was there a training orchestra? Are choirs only for teaching people the basics of music making?

They run trials. It happens all over the country every year. Seems to not be controversial.

I think the big problem here is there has been a lot of popular exposure on community choirs and people like Gareth Malone getting random groups of people to sing together and so many people think that is what a choir is. That is just one type of choir and it is no more important that other types of choir that aim for different things, such as musical excellence. It would be great if a school had the resources to run both types of group but many won't and if there is a good, well-established auditioned choir at a particular school why scrap it?

I think you are confusing football teams with school football teams.