To think a secondary school choir rejecting an 11 year old based on their voice is horrible?

[tigerdrew]

Just had DD come in upset. It's quite random as it's the middle of the night and a weekend and we had a nice day today, told me she is still sad about how she is a bad singer and she doesn't want to see her music teacher as she is too embarrassed etc etc

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s.

AIBU to think a school choir should just be for whoever is interested? When kids are all singing in a group they do sound the same anyway! Obviously maybe solos could be kept for the particularly talented but I'm honestly just a bit sad and even annoyed.

It is in fact true, but it can admittedly take a long time. I never saw that programme but i'm sure it didn't run over the course of years. In reality, mastering an art is many thousand of hours of practice, you can have all the intense mentoring you like but the sheer number of hours is what makes the difference to the vast majority of people. If someone isn't a good ai ger a few weeks after trying it doesn't mean they never will be. Indeed, when learning an art, periods of rest between practice can make just as much difference as the practice itself.

The producers should never allow that to happen. They cruelly exploit people, many of whom seem to have mental health issues. Nothing to do with OPs situation.

What a joker. I've seen the parents of kids backstage egging them on. It's a joke.

@Tellmeimcrazy
What a horrible world it would be if young people weren’t allowed to even just have a go.

I have my dream job and I remember when I was young being told I couldn’t do it because it would never work out as I wasn’t up to it. However one adult told me to give it a go. I had many trials and tribulations over the years …many steep learning curves, some insults along the way until I rose to the top of my profession.

I always say that young people should never be written off. You never know where their passion and desire will get them. They pick up the skills of hard work and determination along the way. I have noticed that the very talented do not always rise to the top. They are often overtaken by those with great passion, drive and who are willing to work hard.

Darius (RIP) was mocked for his audition and went on to become a big West End star and producer.

I hate the culture of public shaming. It is as though bullying is a new sport that has been condoned by the general public.

I am not going to tell you what I do but most wouldn’t call me a “joker”. What do you do by the way?

This is one of those occasions you need to absorb and validate her emotions of being disappointed not become vengeful and on a mission to fix it.

She's sad- she's told you. You need to manage that

Secondary school choirs are often amazing in their power sound. Due to having the kids that sing well involved and not the others.

I was like your daughter and its tough but think about your role in this upset.

We don’t even know whether or not OPs daughter can sing because she hasn’t said. She may well be a talented singer who “choked” during the audition. This can happen to even the best singers. Many well known “stars” get stage fright.

Exactly - trials and tribulations. The point is for something you have to audition for - you may not make it. Whether it is school choir or Britain's got talent. OPs daughter had a go. She didn't make the cut. That's it. She can practice and try again next time. Nobody said she couldn't try again. She may have e to work twice or three times harder than someone who can naturally sing very well. She still may not make it.

My niece has always been a brilliant swimmer. She tried out for a local team, she didn't make it. They do bronze, silver and gold tiers for the team. We carried on practising, she tried again - she got in the next time straight to silver.

Nobody is saying OPs daughter is a write off, but she simply didn't make the cut this time and that's that. She is obviously welcome to keep trying, but she may need to accept she may not make the grade for whatever reason - that's life. If she decides not to try again well then one could argue she didn't want it enough.

Either way she didn't make it this time and it's a valuable life lesson that we do not always get what we want no matter how much we want it.

Usually they've got family and friends with them who've been telling them they're brilliant singers because they didn't want to damage their self-esteem so it is related.

It really was. It really forced the message in that we were crap singers! The days out were rewards for the hard work the singers put in with their weekly practices, but as you say, five extra students on the trips wouldn’t have made a difference. It was a private school so I doubt cost was a concern.

Funny thing is I’ve since learnt I’m not a crap singer, I just needed practice (my husband used to be a solo in his school choir so has taught me a little on how to sing).

I'm so sad this has happened. At my child's secondary anyone can join the choir, band etc. One of my kids is talented in an instrument, he agrees music is for everyone regardless. He enjoys that it is mixed ability and goes all out to help and encourage the other kids.

Exactly what TrollyHolly is saying

But she can’t sing….. this is a choir, where they need to be able to … sing.

I run a kids sorts club, we are soon to be entering a competition with limited spaces - so we pick the kids most like to do well. We pick those most competent at said sport. I am having to deal with SO many complaints from parents about this - kids that have never even done the sport before, yet their parents expect us to drop those that do the sport week in and week out for their precious little off spring. Also expecting me to provide the equipment for them.

If your kid isn't good at something, just bloody accept it please!!

I think at primary school I'd agree with you, but secondary is where things get a bit more "real life". I think auditions for a choir are as valid as try outs for a sports team. Yes, it's horrible not to be chosen, but that is also part of life and something dc need to learn to navigate.

Could you help set up a non-auditioned choir in addition to the auditioned one? Our school had both.

How will they ever learn?
We need to help them with coping with real life not just "oh you are so great"

I tell mine when things are great (she is an amazing artist and writer) but also point out things that could potentially be improved. in our case she asks how much out of 10 and if I say 7 or 8 she asks why (could be a detail on the cheeks or the nose or some words I am not sure flow right)

You need to work on getting it through to her that she really doesn't have to be embarrassed about her voice. Some people can't run quickly, some people can't jump high, some people can't draw well, and some people don't have a great voice. It doesn't in any way make them worse as people.

I have a major inability to hold a note, in some ways I think it's a pity but on the other hand I didn't have to spend hours at choir practices when I was a kid. The compensation was that I really enjoyed acting and had a lot of opportunities to do it, and in later life that's stood me in good stead because public speaking etc doesn't bother me. DSis, however, has a beautiful singing voice but she's really shy, and I think she would rather have things the other way round.

I feel bad for you DD. I'm quite sensitive too, and was really hit hard by rejection at that age. However, this is secondary school, so I don't think it's unreasonable to have auditions for the choir. Did she not sing in a primary school choir where she could have picked up thf basics?
Is she really keen on choir, or just feels embarrassed that she didn't pass the audition? If she's really keen, most people can train their ear/voice with a little help. If it's more that she liked the idea of being part of a group, suggest she looks for something else to join that might gea better use of her time.

Sorry if I've missed an update (didn't go through all 17 pages) but as someone who was privately educated, I would have liked a bit more emphasis on some extra-curricular activities being for pure enjoyment and happiness rather than for winning / achievement etc.

My main bugbear is sport, as I think lots of kids have been turned off fitness for life because of high school PE and competitive sport. At my school, your skills in Year 7 pretty much dictated the opportunities you were given - if, like me, you hadn't been exposed to any coaching or tuition in any sports (my primary school did not have a PE teacher, we just played 'games' without any instruction), then there was no real opportunity to catch up. I hope this is changing, and that there's more emphasis on fitness and non-team activities (e.g. walking, running, yoga, weights).

As for music, I can see why a school would run auditions for the more serious choirs, bands and orchestras, but it would be nice if there was also a choir for anyone, because group singing is fun. Maybe it's a resource issue, or maybe they just take everything too seriously? If the OP's child really wants to sing, I'd be looking outside the school for another opportunity.

Not read the full post, but I do see both sides here. I’m tone deaf. I’m probably the worst singer in the world. I know and accept this, although it makes me sad. Because I LOVE singing. Singing makes me so happy - but I never sing in front of other people as my parents told me so so often how terrible I am.

when I was around 10 years old, someone from the church came to our primary school came and did auditions for the choir. I had a go as this was before being constantly told how crap I was. They accepted me and I even got paid to be part of it. I still remember when I got given a solo part one Sunday! I practiced so, so hard and made it through. Not one of the people involved ever made me feel bad even though I knew I was the only one there who couldn’t actually sing. They encouraged and helped me to try to improve.

As an adult a few years ago I plucked up the courage to join a local “glee” club. I told them I wasn’t going to do any shows because I couldn’t sing and wasn’t coordinated enough. They said no worries, just have a laugh. The other women were AMAZING singers. When they started practicing for the show, the leader asked if I could make it. I said again they were better off without me etc and she told me if I wanted to perform I could, just enjoy myself and it didn’t matter if I was out of time with the dancing, and my singing wasn’t as good as everyone else! It was about having fun together and doing something we loved.

these examples of inclusivity gave really stuck with me, and I was so grateful. I can see a choir wanting the best…. But is there not some sort of part the keen but bad singers could play? And train alongside the better singers to see if they could improve? Other sporting clubs do that (and just pick the best to actually play in the team) so I don’t see how this is different.

It seems a shame that there isn't an alternative for those who don't make the cut - my school had a selective choir run by the singing teacher and a free for all choir run by the music teacher. The downside was that the non-selective choir was almost entirely made up of people who didn't get into the selective one...

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s

YABU. They have to audition because they need to have singers of a certain standard and possibly because there might be limited places so they take the best until all the places are filled.
Some of these secondary school choirs are of a very high standard - competing and performing concerts - representing the school. If they take people who can't sing very well they can't maintain the standard.

It's a life lesson. We don't get everything we apply/audition for. If we really want to do it we can try to improve and have another shot at it (eg. singing lessons) or we can look around for another group (maybe there is a local choir which takes allcomers) or we can accept that it's not our thing and invest time and energy in something else we are good at.

Sorry but for the kids whose passion is singing and choir life, poor singers will ruin it for them. It is very hard to enjoy singing when there's a bad singer honking in your ear. She can't be good at everything and she can find something else to do.

I'm just like OP. Can't stand it when my kids are disappointed or upset. Want to fix it. It's only going to get harder though, the order they get and the more competition there is. Nobody gets à job simply because they wanted to have a go.

But as there was an audition process there was always going to be a chance that she didn't get in. She doesn't seem to have been prepared for that possibility at all. It's a shame but that's the reality of it.

Was she told that she was a bad singer and had a horrible voice (as you said in your OP)? Because that would be a different matter entirely.

The same thing happened to me at secondary school. It was a huge knock to my sonfidence. It took me more than 40 years to pluck up courage to join a choir. I have since sung 'great works' in cathedrals, village halls and the Albert Hal and a small part in a musical. I completely agree that an all-comers choir and a selective one wd be ideal. I suggest OP takes this up, politely and positively, with the school and makes that suggestion.