To think a secondary school choir rejecting an 11 year old based on their voice is horrible?

[tigerdrew]

Just had DD come in upset. It's quite random as it's the middle of the night and a weekend and we had a nice day today, told me she is still sad about how she is a bad singer and she doesn't want to see her music teacher as she is too embarrassed etc etc

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s.

AIBU to think a school choir should just be for whoever is interested? When kids are all singing in a group they do sound the same anyway! Obviously maybe solos could be kept for the particularly talented but I'm honestly just a bit sad and even annoyed.

Can you pay for Singing lessons for her, so she'll feel better?

You should've given a big smile, hugged her said oh never mind why don't you try this...

It is horrible to be rejected. Adults remember it for years from their childhood. As you can see here several grow up into 'lets stick the boot in' types as they were likely told to 'toughen up' so they did, and ended up disappointed in life which manifests into harshness.

Honestly tho I'd get her into Singing lessons, she can enjoy learning. Don't make a big deal of what happened just provide alternatives.

My DD is a gymnast and was selected for the competition squad at 6 years old. All the other girls, bar one, were rejected. Her first competition at 6 years old she placed 26th out of 27 girls. Yes it was upsetting but she carried on training and is now consistently placing in the top 6 and often coming 1st.

She's 11 now and it's taught her to work hard, to not be afraid of rejection and to not give up. I have so much respect for her determination and mindset.

@horseymum

Yes, some people really are utterly tone deaf. And tone dumb.

That is impressive! Congratulations to your daughter :). Most people do not become great without effort and setbacks. How awesome she persevered.

Well seen you haven’t enabled the voting, you complete wet blanket.

The fact that there is an audition tells you that they only want the best singers.

Your DD needs to understand that she cannot get everything she wants.

However, I do think there should be a choir that anyone can take part in.

They should encourage being involved in extracurricular activities and everyone needs to learn somewhere.

I know this is a big issue with things like football teams as they only want the best players to play against other schools and win.

They could have 2 teams - 1 voluntary and 1 auditioned and then everyone can take part.
It also benefits them as they’ll be able to see who is good and who isn’t.

Ffs 🙄, my son tried out for the footy team, he didn’t get in as he can’t play very well. That’s life

My daughter (12) is not a great singer. Not the worst ever but she's certainly not the next Adele and I've told her as much (in a nice way). Instead I highlight all the things she is good at. If you tell kids they are amazing at everything, when in fact they are bad or just average, you are setting them up for a hard time IMO.

Singing well is a combination of things, most of which can be improved on. I have pretty much perfect pitch. If you play me a note I can tell you what it is. I can pick out tunes from a mile away and pick up most musical intruments and play a basic tune without ever having learned to play that instrument.

I am not a very good singer though. I can just about hold a tune but I'm definitely not Beyonce. This is because I was never really trained to sing. The number of people who are genuinely 'tone deaf' is incredibly small

I can see why you're upset OP. I do think a love of music should be nurtured in the same way a love of reading/maths/sports should be. I went to school in the 90s when we were a lot less 'woke' than we are right now and I don't remember anyone not being allowed in the general choir right up to 6th form. As pp have said it's a community experience as much as anything. I also sort of agree with other pp though that say it's a lesson in resilience. The resilience lesson doesn't come from being OTT upset about it though or chastising dd over her valid emotions around it though IMO. It comes from acknowledging she's upset and helping her find a social acceptable way of dealing with that upset. Is she really keen to sing? In which case she dries her tears and you do some research together on how she can do this be this singing lessons, joining a different choir etc. She maybe asks the choir leader if there'a anything she can do to improve too.She could write an assertive letter to the school explaining how dissappointed this is and how brilliant an all-inclusive choir would be but I wouldn't go crazy at the school or encourage her to as this isn't teaching resilience it's teaching her to over-react whenever things don't go her way. Or if she's not really that into the singing and just went to be with her mates for example then you just have a cry and let it go. There's nothing wrong with kids and even parents being upset over this kind of experience. It's how you deal with it that breeds true resilience and happiness.

This is amazing but I wonder how well the ones that were rejected did.

Your DD got a place which would have built her confidence.

The girls that got rejected would have had their confidence knocked and perhaps not kept trying.

That is what OP is saying.
If they are rejected then does it knock their confidence so much that they don’t want to do it anymore.

This makes me cringe so hard. It's the same cringe I get when you see those teenagers on xfactor who think they can sing because their parents told them. We need to normalise telling children in situations like this that they aren't good at things it would save them so much embarrassment

Don't do this to your daughter. She wasn't good enough for the choir so wasn't selected, she hasn't become an inferior human as a result, it's not the end of the world so do not give her the impression it is.

We all remember childhood disappointment but disappointment is a fact of life and it's not kind or caring to protect children from that truth.

Give her a cuddle, suggest some singing lessons if she's interested and encourage her in the things she does have a natural talent or aptitude for.

I think the school should have two choirs: one with the best singers and one with a free for all. They could have different repertoires and different expectations of standards.

Nobody should be prevented from singing in a group if it's what they would love to do. The vast majority of adult "community choirs" have no auditions and no requirement to be able to read music. All you need is to love to sing. Singing in a group has been proven to be highly beneficial for a person's mental health - and it's a crying shame for an eleven year old to be denied the opportunity to experience the joy of group singing.

Yes, remember that girl on the x factor where her awful family dressed her in a ridiculous dress and made a laughing stock of her on national TV? I'd much rather tell my daughter that her voice is only fit for the shower than put her through that!

Because they were frozen

Do you feel strongly enough to volunteer to organise a choir for those rejected but wish to carry on?

I don't know why people think if you want to sing or act then you should be able to irrespective of any discernable talent. No one would think the same for getting on the school sports teams, maths team, debating team, string quartet. If she enjoys singing get her lessons just like you would if she wanted to play the trumpet.

Reassure her that the music teacher will just be pleased she put herself forward for it and will now know she’s interested in musical things. I’m sure they don’t enjoy letting down the ones who are unsuccessful. If it’s audition-only it will be a choir who work on challenging songs and harmonies - it’s no different really to not getting a part in the school play, or not being selected for a sports team. Encourage her to try any music clubs at school that are open to all (maybe there’s keyboard club, or ukulele club?) and look at youth choirs outside school - lots of community choirs are inclusive and open to anyone, and if she gets plenty of singing practice she’ll have a much better chance of getting in next year if she still wants to. It does feel horrible being rejected though - sympathy to your dd.

Why should the teachers run two choirs because too many students today have no resilience and can’t cope with rejection ? They have enough to do.
Not being good at everything and being rejected is a life lesson that we all have to learn.

Its a crying shame to be denied the joy of group singing

This is all a tad dramatic when talking about an secondary school pupil not passing a choir audition.
Absurd expectations are placed on cash strapped schools with staff shortages and woeful budgets.

Op doesn’t have to deny her dd of the joy of singing?
Whack some music on and sing together?
Join a local singing group or church choir?
Buy her a cheap karaoke machine and invite her mates round?
Show her some of the numerous singing tuition apps online.

This is a great example of how there has been a shift in parenting over the past 20-30 years. Nobody likes to see their kids sad and upset but you then have to manage this appropriately. As others have said, it's a life lesson and you could encourage her interest by getting her some lessons and supporting her to audition again next year, when she's improved, or by finding a singing / music group for everyone that she can attend out of school. Unfortunately, some parents seem absolutely unable to cope with their DC experiencing disappointment / sadness / upset, so instead of learning that these feelings are a normal part of life and developing the skills to cope with them, these DC learn that it is not acceptable for them to feel these things and that everyone should bend over backwards to ensure that they don't, in addition to not learning coping skills. The result? Entitled and emotionally immature young people.

I can still remember failing the audition for the choir when I was about eight, and my three close friends were accepted. I was disappointed at the time, but I was old enough to understand that my singing voice wasn't as good as my friends, and knew that auditioning didn't mean that I would automatically be accepted. I would have been far more upset if my mum had made a fuss about me not being accepted and would have learnt nothing from the experience of she hadn't have explained that most people can't be good at everything.

I strongly agree.

Its well intentioned to protect a child from experiencing negative emotions but can have a very detrimental effect on emotional development.

I surprised they don’t have an open entry choir too. Our local schools all have a general choir and then from that the more gifted/often older teens get chosen for a smaller choir. They both perform for things.

OP come on, listen to yourself. No one can be good at everything. Your daughter needs to learn that lesson - it's a hard lesson for all of us, but it is reality.