To think a secondary school choir rejecting an 11 year old based on their voice is horrible?

[tigerdrew]

Just had DD come in upset. It's quite random as it's the middle of the night and a weekend and we had a nice day today, told me she is still sad about how she is a bad singer and she doesn't want to see her music teacher as she is too embarrassed etc etc

DD tried out for the school choir which is done by audition so obviously she was aware there was some kind of judging involved and so was I but I do think rejecting a year 7 into something they are interested in trying is harsh, especially when it's hard enough for year 7s.

AIBU to think a school choir should just be for whoever is interested? When kids are all singing in a group they do sound the same anyway! Obviously maybe solos could be kept for the particularly talented but I'm honestly just a bit sad and even annoyed.

Primary choirs are for anyone.

She's secondary now. Of course she needs to be a reasonable singer to join.

I presume someone else will have suggested this by now but if she’s that fussed why not get her lessons if you can afford it and encourage her to try again next year?

Agreed.
Many community Choirs accept anyone & help you learn to improve your voice & all round musical ability. School should surely teach this. Learning is lifelong - it starts with interest, with not giving up, with gradual improvement.
Much better life lessons than 'choir is only for those who are good to start with'.
And, yes, donkeys CAN go over mountains.

By the same stroke you can't just have non swimmers on the school swimming team

This is why children are so soft and cry over everything, parents not preparing them for rejection.

I always tell mine, I think you are great at X but there are always going to be someone better then you at it.... that's life.

She's resilient and knows that she can't have everything, it doesn't mean she's a failure or rubbish but simply she can't be perfect and rejection shouldn't stop her trying other things.

That’s a valid point.
All parents could ideally teach their children this and model getting enjoyment from singing, sport or any hobby that’s just for fun.

Getting angry about how “unfair” it is that not every child passes a singing audition?
Not helpful for anyone, least of all the child.

This could be a teachable moment for your DD.

At the moment she is not good enough to join this selective choir.

Does she want to try to improve her singing? She may never reach the required standard. Could she ask for feedback? Could she start her own choir?

How she deals with this setback could be the making of her.

Choirs are selective because one bad singer can probably be masked by all the others but not several. If they let everyone in they could end up with too many people who can't really sing which could be disastrous.

I was rejected the first year I auditioned for primary school choir aged 8 and of course was upset. My parents told me that was life. You win some you lose some and if I really wanted to I should try again. I tried again the next year and was successful.

And yes if your child is bad at something you should tell them in a sensitive way followed by bigging them up about what they are good at. It does nothing for children especially once they are at secondary school to let them think they are good at something they really aren't. Of course that doesn't mean they shouldn't do the thing if they enjoy it, just that they can't do it on the team/ in the choir/ in the art contest or whatever it is.

Very different situation. A voluntary choir isn't there to teach individual children to sing, anyone who has been in a choir could tell you that, it's for teaching a group of people how to sing together in perfect harmony.
You can't compare part of the curriculum to a extra after school activity 🙄

Singing lessons on the other hand, they are for teaching individuals how to sing. Like you said your Nan had a "voice coach", not a choirmaster, to teach her how to sing.

In school when they were putting on a concert anybody who wanted to take part just turned up for practice in the music room. No auditions but we sounded fabulous on the night. Maybe because being in Wales, as you know everyone can sing. That’s a joke by the way.
Maybe only the ones who could sing turned up.

we can’t be good at everything. I was crap at games. Always picked last which was fair because I couldn’t even catch a ball. I wouldn’t even have wanted me on the team.

excelled at gymnastics though and always picked first when we were in teams or groups.

swings and roundabouts.

as other pp have suggested if she is serious about singing get her some lessons.

Is there something else she may be good at that you could gently steer her towards that she could concentrate on.

Drama?
Sports?

This!

This happened to me. I was in the school choir, it was just a turn up if you’re interested choir, & the teacher could tell a terrible voice was coming from a particular section. Four of us had to sing a line solo to determine who it was. It was me!! I then had the choice to mime or leave.

My inability to sing is, to this day, a standing joke in our family.

Having lived through a global pandemic I would have hoped that schools would prioritise participation in group activities, ensuring that as many kids as possible could be involved. A lot of kids have just disappeared from the system since the pandemic. Why not give those that want to take part the opportunity?

Arrghhh again no, it may not mean she is bad. It may mean she needs practice. Few people in the world excel at anything most are average but with time, practice and opportunity may improve. Letting one rejection put you off isn’t resilience. Some of the students she competed with may have had private lessons, training that you don’t even know about.

She can also try finding a community choir to sing in, there are benefits even if you are not brilliant.

Most people are not terrible or excellent; just somewhere in the middle.

Your daughter is eleven. She knew that there were auditions the choir and that there was a chance that she might not be chosen, which is the case here. She is quite old enough to understand that, while she is disappointed not to have been chosen, it is just one of those things and to get over it. I presume that she can always try again another time. This is exactly what you should be saying to her. You are not helping her by rising to her defence on every little - and this is extremely little - disappointment. This is a good opportunity to learn some resilience. I was never picked for sports teams (with good reason!) but that was fine. I have not passed every audition or interview l have attended but, again, that’s life and the same for everyone. There has been far too much “prizes for all” mentality and it is not a good thing for anyone. Eleven is a good age to learn this lesson in a safe environment over a small thing. As for saying she will be embarrassed to see her music teacher because she failed her audition - for goodness’ sake! The music teacher won’t think any more or less of her because she was not good enough for the choir. They will be pleased she had a go - it shows she has an interest. Instead of supporting her misapprehension you can tell her this and then the subject should remain closed.

It's a nice sentiment in theory to say (quite rightly) most people can have help and lessons to sing better.

But this is a choir not a singing club so there's surely the expectation that members have a minimum standard already?

And teachers and adults helping aren't there to develop everyone from a zero ability level, I'm guessing they have plans to stage a concert so are focusing on that therefore want actual talent?

It's not year 1 where watching a play with awful singing is cute an endearing, unfortunately.

Agree that this is definitely a Life Teaching Moment OP.

*for the choir.

And agree it's not comparable to a kid who isn't excelling at an academic subject for example, maths.

Nonsense. Also there are some people (DH and his entire family) who simply cannot hold a tune,however much they improve they will sound terrible. Just as I will never be any good at pole vaulting.

Lessons if she's serious about putting in the time and energy could be a good shout

My kids' school goes the opposite way and lets anyone who wants to sing a solo do it. It can be pretty painful to listen to. I'm OK with them letting anyone in the choir though as that sounds fine, so I agree with you op

I remember Sheila in our school choir, very loud and confident, terrible voice.

Okay. Thanks for explaining. My school didn't have a choir, just a few sports clubs like netball anyone could join as no girls at my school wanted to do sports lol.

My gran didn't have a voice coach, she knew a voice coach - my gran preferred wiskey and bingo to singing lol

The director of music at DHs church said something similar (she is an award winning musician and teacher with her own Wiki page). After a few sessions with him she changed her mind...

That's so sad. Singing is good for the soul. Schools shouldn't be turning away people who want to sing, they should be working with them to help them improve. No one is tone deaf really, telling someone they can't sing can put them off for life. A tiny percentage of people cant sing. It's different if this was for a high level chamber choir with only 12 people and they all have to hold their own but I doubt this is what a school choir is like. If she wants to sing, maybe look for a community choir outside school. They will probably have longer rehearsals anyway so more time to work on warm ups, technique, learning the tune. Sometimes they provide backing tracks to learn the parts at home too which would help if it's that she finds hard.