Why is it ok to be violent and insulting to a woman who makes a mistake.

[whatisgoingonintheworld]

A female calls a person 'lady' in error because she thought the person was female. The person identifies as non binary. The trans manager then verbally insults and finally physically assaults the woman and the man outside.

Is this really what we have come to. A simple word and the non binary is upset and so the trans person can kick a customer from the shop, purposefully insult and then assault.

So is misgendering (even by accident) so serious it merits verbal abuse and physical violence? I mean it isn't even obvious whether the person she called 'lady' behind the counter is non binary, looks female. The trans woman manager looks male and certainly acts it!

Why are so many trans women displaying what was formally seen as masculine traits (violence) now that they identify as female.

Also as has (as ever) been posted on this thread..
'This never happens and if it does its the fault of the female person, especially if she's an older female'...

One aggressive trans person isn’t a reflection on trans people as a whole

One might not be but what about those who beat up a steward at the let women speak event just a couple of weeks ago, or those photographed with MSPs and a sign saying ‘decapitate terfs’. Or those who assaulted and threatened Posie Parker in New Zealand such the police advised they couldn’t keep her safe and advised her to leave the country, or the trans activist spitting on women wanting to watch the adult human female film as Edinburgh Uni then blocking the way in at the attempt to reschedule it, or the endless violent language on social media by trans people, or the threats to Rosie Duffield and Joanna Cherry that have ended up in court. Or the transwoman who punched a 70 year old attendee at a women’s event, or the transwomen who screamed at the baby of a bystander in Hyde park, or the ‘die terfs’ banners are pride events…

Aggression towards women is a clear feature of this ideology.

This whole thread, the article and the strawman arguments - just the biggest pile of bs.

So sick of f*ckwits grinding their axes about trans people.

Just bloody nonsense. Get another hobby.

You are being disingenuous.

Males are considerably more violent, on average, than females.

They display anger more often, and they display more extreme aggression, too - so, more often and much worse - and with lesser, or no, or imagined, provocation..

Anyone - anyone at all - may become violent. But they are much more likely to become violent if they are male.

I don't have a problem with people videoing me in public - they won't catch me clapping my hands in someone's face or being aggressive as fuck at them because I don't do shit like that. It's really simple. Same reason I don't fear ending up on someone's car dashcam footage doing something wanky on the road - I don't drive like a dickhead.

Are you a man? Is your hobby violence / aggression against women because this just shows a male being aggressive - which is not unusual

Whatever is worn doesn’t change that

Customer gets uppity about no cash payments, snipes about it to barista, manager interjects because of customers tone & will be required to back up company policies, customer snaps at manager and misgenders barista in process, manager points out barista doesn't identify as female, both customer and manager continue to jointly escalate situation with shouting and gesticulating and rudeness ending in second customer videoing and manager taking things too far because they're all worked up.

It doesn't look good for either side. This is what I took from reading through the whole article three times, carefully, as well as watching the video.

@N0tANOoDl3He4Duppity is a word I have learned to avoid. It is regarded as an insult by some black women, and I can see their point. For similar reasons I don't like Karen, which the young male-born manager felt free to use to insult a white middle-aged woman. But on behalf of anyone lacking basic comprehension skills, thanks for your precis.

No comment on the clear example male violence against women then?

And I'm sick of trans people grinding their axes and expecting everyone to adhere to their ideology.

Perhaps they could just get on with living their lives without all the performative drama, threats, violence and abuse because other people don't agree with compelled speech or belief.

Quite. The thread title asks 'if it's OK': it's not. They've been sacked, and I gather the police are investigating.

Stop stirring up hatred, OP. This one dickhead is not representative of trans people as a whole, however much some people on this site would love you to believe. And yes, I'm sure other trans people have misbehaved, as have some straight people, some white people, some Asian people etc. Shitstirring off the back of this single ugly but minor incident is repellent.

But most do?

Why is it ok to be violent and insulting to a woman who makes a mistake

Very odd choice of title. Noone but noone has said its OK & the person who was violent & insulting has been fired.

Where does the 'ok' bit come into it

Do they? Evidence suggests otherwise.

What happened, happened. I've no doubt they were shaken up by it. Talking about how being in Tenerife "is helping them come to terms with their ordeal" with a series of photos of them hugging and drinking cocktails is overegging it. And that does undermine her credibility as to how traumatic the event was.

Yes, we should all be able to go into a cafe and order overpriced coffee without having to join in someone else's fantasy drama.

I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if the customer had called a staffmember a cunt (rude word)? rather than lady (not a rude word)?

@izimbra then regard it in the prism of what we can see. Do you think the Starbucks manager behaved appropriately?

Women often come across male aggression, it’s not unusual

Many don’t want to excuse it or ignore it, some do but not all

The logic here is weird:

accidental misgendering= traumatising, worth shouting at someone.

Being shouted at and physically manhandled and insulted= get over it snowflake.

It’s almost as if their is a cognitive bias at play.

I agree. Also many many women have been filmed completely out of context to create many of the viral ‘Karen’ videos over these last few years, causing huge distress, loss of privacy, reputation, online and irl reprisals etc.

This situation has witnesses and full cctv coverage. The manager here is in no way a victim of the footage. And Vanessa, the customer he called Karen - who didn’t set out to ‘talk to the manager’ btw, has received public support from far and wide.

If there is, report it.

on the evidence I've seen I believe the manager also identifies as non binary i.e. does not consider themselves to be a man or a woman (this could easily be out of date though)

I would only say this is what narcissistic rage looks like so if the manager is not a narcissist they're pretending so well I can't tell the difference https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-narcissistic-rage-5183744

It's the Daily Mail - well known for being a pile of trash and fanning the flames of the culture wars around gender identity issues

"Perhaps they could just get on with living their lives without all the performative drama, threats, violence and abuse because other people don't agree with compelled speech or belief."

I'm 57. How could I have lived this long and never been subject to oppression and abuse by trans people?

Might it be because trans women make up just 0.2% of the population?

Maybe you should be asking yourself why the Daily Mail and mumsnet are so obsessed with trans issues, and feel so victimised by them, given that in material terms the existence of trans women makes bugger all difference to the rest of us.

Karen, Uppity - insults which are used against women with a racial tinge and usually, but not exclusively, by men.

I was called a Karen for politely advising a young man that it wasn't a good idea to leave his beautiful ruby cocker spaniel pup tied to the hitching post outside the supermarket even though it was Waitrose.

I didn't really give much of a fuck. It wouldn't be me who'd have to explain to my wife and kids that some bastard had stolen our dog because I was a fuckwit who couldn't take gentle guidance from a woman.

Well, you've answered the OP's question so eloquently and politely, I'm convinced.

I think a calm but firm: "Would you please leave, Madam?" covers it.

How can anyone ask a customer to leave the premises for telling the truth?

The female customer said what she saw, calling the biological female 'lady'. The biological female member of staff needs to get over herself. Non-binary is just 'made up' nonsense that is meaningless to sane most people. How on earth are customers supposed to know what a female member of staff 'identifies as' or what anybody 'identifies as' for that matter?

As for the male manager, he displayed disgraceful behaviour and should be held accountable for that. I hope that he's charged with assault.

We say what we see. We see a male, we use the term man. We see a female, we use the term woman. Buying into gender identity means we have to lie to appease others. I refuse to do this as it's fake, a lie and I will not pander to lies.