To ask if you have a problem with the burkini?

[Mvslimah]

Honest answers please

would you give a woman (maybe Muslim maybe Jewish) a wide berth if you saw them wearing a burkini or modest (Ie fully covered) swimsuit at a pool?

if you see a woman wearing one do you give it a second thought or is it just a meh, who cares?

tia

All religion is mediaeval nonsense so I guess we are never going to agree here. I will leave you to it.

I don’t have a problem with birkinis for the record.

I do see a double standard that the men wear western clothing and the women do not. I would have more respect for them if both were equally covered.

You and the OP are making judgements by your use of the offensive phrase "modest clothing"

OP, I’m really sorry a group of proudly ignorant people felt the need to spoil your swim. I think burkinis look sporty and practical.

To the posters saying they think you covering your skin is oppression, and that you’re being controlled by a man, I’d say they could maybe take a wee moment and think about why so many posters on here are saying they’d also quite like to wear something that covered their bodies; not for religious purposes, but to hide perceived flaws.

Lots of women in Britain are subjugated by a manufactured tyranny of female perfection. There are hundreds of posts on here about ways to get ourselves closer to how women are ‘meant’ to look and every single week we read pained messages, women distraught over their weight, the natural signs of ageing, breast size, every imaginable aspect of their physical appearance.

Maybe it’s all been a construct of the patriarchy to distract us, and God knows how much money is made every year by the deliberate creation and exploitation of life-long female insecurities, but there’s abundant proof anywhere online or in print media a person cares to look; so many of us are ashamed of ourselves and fear the judgement of others, to the point we see our bodies as a battle to be won. So we’re hardly all skipping around in some utopia of perfect freedom, are we?

For some it is, for most in the UK I’d say. Saudi used to be a cultural norm so not really but now it’s less and less common, obviously in the likes of Afghanistan it’s not a choice

ive worn the face veil but my husband hates it, he won’t be seen with me in it. I’ve had an odd reaction, I’ve had people shake their heads at me and then people (Muslims) just assume I’m ultra religious, both problematic . It’s very very unusual in his family, they do sort of make fun of women who wear it, gharabeeb soud, black crows

I wear western clothes, in fact it’s 97% of what I wear.

Your long answer doesn't address the points of how offensive your use of the term "modest clothing" is.

I don't have a problem with it but i must say i feel sad when i see dad and son in front of car and mother sitting in back. I feel sad when i see the burkas on ladies in hot weather and father n children in t-shirts and shorts. Just wrong

I wouldn't have any negative thoughts about it. The only thing I'd be thinking (and maybe looking as pondering) would be if it was comfortable ie does sand get stuck in there? Think lots of people wear them for different reasons, ie Sun protection

Guess you're also offended by chapter seven of Mary Wollstonecraft's Vindication of the Rights of Women?

Just for the original question - I'd notice but not mind and not give it a second glance. If you're in the sun, all the better for sun protection. I would only object if my choosing to wear something else was made an issue by you or anyone who judged my swimsuit to be 'immodest'. It's actually pretty modest but still a standard swimsuit.

haya حياء

Translatable to reservedness, diffidence, humbleness, discretion, unassuming?

Your burkini is akin to what quakers call "plain dress", it's not about covering your body so much as about trying to be discreet.

I appreciate that it doesn't have quite the same meaning but do you see that the British meaning is outdated and sexist? This is my issue. I do know not all women have a problem with it, but it is very much one of my pet hates - I think the casual and accepted use of this sort of term keeps the notion of a woman's character being linked to her attire in our culture, whether consciously or otherwise. And though you may say you don't think women who don't wear 'modest' clothing are sluts, or trying to attract men etc (and I believe you!) there are certainly some who do; I remember a few years ago some woman was being interviewed and mentioned that she wore the hijab because she wasn't trying to attract men. The interview wasn't about that, actually can't remember what it was about but I remember how she said it offhandedly as though it were obvious that if you showed your hair you were trying to attract men. That got my back up! That's just one example, there have been many I've seen or read where women have suggested that if you didn't want male interest you would cover yourself, and that the reason western women don't is because we're dressing for men - even in this thread! That interpretation of the term 'modest' is very much in line with the old British one and I think it's important to make the distinction between wearing full-coverage clothing because your religion asks it and wearing full-coverage clothing because to do otherwise would be trying to attract men. I think using the term 'haya' would be ideal, especially as it would help make the distinction - and we've managed to cope with 'halal', 'hijab' etc so would probably get used to it! But obviously this is just my opinion, I am not expecting you to convince the rest of the UK to adopt the new expression 😁

Finally, I have encountered more than one muslim woman who has been 'triggered' by the term, they have told some pretty horrible stories about how their communities have treated them and have worked hard to get away from them. However, I'm only talking about three women in total so I doubt they're representative! I have met a few more though who were raised in muslim communities and are now confirmed atheists and they also have some pretty horrible stories...

I think it's up to the individual what they wear and I'd have no further thought than that- it has nothing to do with me. And I find it sad that posters are jumping to the conclusion that women only do this under men's authority- many women choose to wear more modest clothing eh burkini/ burkha etc because they feel its the best way for them to practice their faith. To me empowerment is allowing women to choose their own personal expression. So I also wouldn't assume they'd been forced to do it.

I know a muslim who doesn't cover her hair or wear obviously 'modest' clothing for this reason; she considers that as we are in Britain, wearing non-western clothing stands out and announces to onlookers she is different and is therefore immodest as modesty demands she shouldn't attract attention to herself!

I’ve never met anyone in real life triggered by the word modesty.z

But everyone who wears a burkini is doing it freely? Unless they live in Afghanistan or large parts of the Middle East. Is that what you are saying?
So Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan are Muslim but not really Muslim ? Or a different type of Muslim?

This actually makes more logical sense. Walking around covered from head to toe in black cloth does tend to make you stand out.

I’m baffled by how determined some PP are to be offended by your clothing choices and the term ‘modest’ (which can be used in an insulting way, but absolutely isn’t here).

OP, if I saw you at the swimming pool I wouldn’t think anything of it. I certainly wouldn’t think you were anymore a victim of internalised misogyny than me and my non Muslim friends. I’ve had far too many conversations about hair removal/weight loss/hiding stretch marks for that.

I’m so sorry you experienced this. I live in Aus and though I can’t say I have ever seen one on the beach, I think they make much more sense than bikinis from a sun-sense point of view. (I am not someone who enjoys basking in the sun, so rarely go to the beach. We have a genetic form of ocular melanoma in my family so I have more reason than most to be paranoid.)

Nope. I had a costume that covers more than most and may well get a rash vest to cover even more

I wear modest swimwear. I don’t like the baggy/skirty ones but my mum wears this type. When I was younger and less jiggly I wore regular costumes and bikinis but I feel more self conscious now so I prefer more coverage.

I currently wear a high-neck, sleeveless, front zip costume with sports leggings because my boobs are contained during aqua aerobics and I don’t have to worry about shaving my legs before I go swimming. I no longer have to adjust costume to cover my boobs or de fuzz which means I can go last minute and that is liberating.

If you want coverage but not the full whack burkini, I would recommend a high neck zip costume and legging combo.

I'm atheist but I wear all-covering swimwear because I have to get my bikinis (too tall for one-pieces) from Bravissimo and there is no way that 34GG norks like mine don't attract attention, both skeevy male and otherwise. I don't feel comfortable flashing what are effectively knickers either, so I put a sun suit over the bikini. And yeah, maybe part of this is because of that early childhood lesson that I have to stop the paedophile looking at me instead of my aunt reporting him to the pool guard. But I have to feel like I'm not being leered at in order to feel comfortable swimming. This means that I actually get to swim instead of sitting at home not swimming. I don't get comments. Maybe it's because we have many haredim living in the area so swimmers are used to women in all-covering costumes in the pool, or maybe it's because I'm white. My point is that what feels like "plain dress" in the quaker sense to the wearer may not be what the people around consider to be plain dress. Plain dress for me in the eyes of others would be a tankini or something like that, but I would feel over-exposed.

But the quakers themselves have schismed over that. The majority wear a discreet version of whatever the surrounding culture wears, whilst others wear something more akin to Amish dress, think of Elizabeth Fry.

The important thing is surely that the OP is wearing a costume that means she feels comfortable enough to take her DCs swimming, and why she feels comfortable in that costume is less important than that she does.

So sorry you had this experience OP

I'm another who burns easily and if I was going on a beach holiday I would consider wearing one or something similar for that reason.

Does anyone else get the urge to go swimming with the OP and her children?

@slimeandfearmetro

My mum had two mastectomies, some of the companies that make swimwear for women post mastectomy also do made to measure. They start at about £40 it might be worth contacting them to see if they can do a longer length

https://woman-zone.co.uk/woman-zone/abc-bra-range.html

Why not tell your children the woman chose to wear it which is just as likely to be true.

If it is a genuine choice, OK with it. If forced by a controlling (usually) man, then I do, though unlikely to know if that is the case.