Page 13 | To ask if you have a problem with the burkini?

Mvslimah · 2023-05-07T19:28:59+00:00

Honest answers please would you give a woman (maybe Muslim maybe Jewish) a wide berth if you saw them wearing a burkini or modest (Ie fully covered) swimsuit at a pool? if you see a woman wearing one do you give it a second thought or is it just a meh, who cares? tia

Wouldlovetobeinthesun · 07/05/2023 22:43

It's common place here in female only swimming sessions. I wear a one piece swimsuit and don't bat an eyelid at a burkini. Why would I?

Original poster

Mvslimah · 07/05/2023 22:43

ohnonowwhat · 07/05/2023 22:38

I would give anyone who I heard referring to female clothing as 'modest' a very wide berth, I think it's an absolutely disgusting attitude and has absolutely no place whatsoever in modern society. I wear a swimsuit and don't cover my hair, am I immodest? I wear knee-length skirts and v-neck tops, am I begging for sex? At the gym I wear leggings and a tight vest top, if I get raped wearing that will it be my fault as no man can be expected to resist me when I'm so brazenly advertising my wares? Modesty is behaviour, not clothing - and I would say sneering at and using offensive slurs against other women because they don't hide their body under baggy clothing like it's something to be ashamed of is pretty fucking immodest! I am not going to be hiding my elbows because your man can't control himself if he catches a glimpse and I do hope that you will teach your children that what a person - female or male - wears has no bearing on their character. I'd much, much rather a woman with her bits hanging out who isn't judgemental and who treats others with kindness and grace than someone shuffling around in a burka who considers themselves more 'modest' than other women.

Who has sneered at you? no one (with any decency anyway) would say you’re asking for it because you wear leggings or a t shirt or a mini skirt.

my husband also wouldn’t get aroused at the sight of your elbow

OP posts:

Neverquitehappy · 07/05/2023 22:44

@SleepingStandingUp

So is op lying when she says it's her choice or is she just so oppressed she can't possibly tell?

Honestly? I would initially suspect the second one.

SwingandaPrayer · 07/05/2023 22:44

MooFroo · 07/05/2023 22:31

@girlfriend44 i think the same when I see almost naked women trying to get attention from men or someone. Such a shame that they degrade themselves for others, bowing down to get their bits out for attention.

Even worse when showing off their boobs and bums while with their own family and friends!
Never understood why it’s deemed fine for anyone to sit around in public wearing what is essentially underwear, just because you’re on holiday!!
I do wish more people had more respect for their own body and for those of us who don’t want to see it

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Just wow, what a judgemental comment. What on earth makes you think women wear bikinis to get men's attention? That's the last thing on my mind when I put mine on. I have respect for my body and I don't really give a shit who sees it. If you don't want to see bodies, dont go to the beach or pool.

Cardimum · 07/05/2023 22:44

No I don't have a problem with them OP......but then I wear one 😉(Nike). The Shein ones are nice too.

Branleuse · 07/05/2023 22:46

Id assume it was a muslim woman swimming. I would probably notice her but i feel neutral about it. Ive seen people wearing them before and its not a big deal

Original poster

Mvslimah · 07/05/2023 22:46

Oh and I can’t find the post but yes women cover in front of other women but just basically the groin area lol, basically the thigh and groin area. And the red gold and silk thing is because they are for women only, I think thr read thing is more ambiguous and disputed. The head covering for men is more arab etiquette not obligatory

OP posts:

SleepingStandingUp · 07/05/2023 22:46

Neverquitehappy · 07/05/2023 22:44

@SleepingStandingUp

So is op lying when she says it's her choice or is she just so oppressed she can't possibly tell?

Honestly? I would initially suspect the second one.

Lucky she has you here to tell you how she should think and what she should wear

Violetsrosesandchocolate · 07/05/2023 22:48

Curtain1980 · 07/05/2023 22:16

I was at a spa and saw a woman in a full armed and full legged burkhini sitting in the sauna? I actually felt really sorry for her, her husband was in swim shorts and of course he/they could see our bodies. I honestly would not have even noticed her had she been in a regular swimming costume.

I saw the same at the beach on a hot day. Husband in shorts and wife in full body burkini and head covering. I felt really sorry for her, how can that possibly feel comfortable? How can anyone look at that and not see the inequality, her choice or not, it’s sad that she has been brought uo
to believe that it’s ok for men to have their skin and hair on show but not women?

Wrong that you were made to feel uncomfortable OP and I’m sorry that happened to you but seeing women and girls covered up, especially when it’s very hot, makes me feel sad for them. Especially when it’s a little girl, let her let her hair down and feel the wind in it. Let women feel the sun and sea on their skin.

Would bother me less if men abided by the same rules but they never have to, do they? Always the women who have to live by the strict, restrictive diktats that curtail their freedoms. And no, not being allowed to wear certain colours or bring covered from navel to knee is really not the same.

Original poster

Mvslimah · 07/05/2023 22:49

Neverquitehappy · 07/05/2023 22:44

@SleepingStandingUp

So is op lying when she says it's her choice or is she just so oppressed she can't possibly tell?

Honestly? I would initially suspect the second one.

So rude, who is oppressing me? I love how you’ve decided that on my behalf.

yes my choice is informed by my faith but free choice is an illusion, anyone recall that monologue by Miranda in devil wear Prada about a pile of stuff

OP posts:

Wouldlovetobeinthesun · 07/05/2023 22:50

Wouldlovetobeinthesun · 07/05/2023 22:43

It's common place here in female only swimming sessions. I wear a one piece swimsuit and don't bat an eyelid at a burkini. Why would I?

Sorry OP have read your other posts now. I'm sorry you were made to feel like that. Easy to say they're ignorant so and so's but not easy to be on the receiving end of their words. I hope you don't stop going and have fun!

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 07/05/2023 22:50

fairywhale · 07/05/2023 22:35

Yes, woman's body isn't something that needs to be ashamed of or covered up or dehumanised. It's not suitable attire for swimmimg. There is no free choice in it. Supporting this is supporting misogyny and oppression of women.
A lot of people on mumsnet will say it's her choice, but it almost never is and there are consequences for not to.
It normalises slut shaming, victim blaming, the need for "modest clothing", men as unable to contain their libido, or control their impulses, etc.
If you'd worded this as should I cover my hair, legs, ankles, arms, elbows, chest, bum or whatever to stop arousing males ot men lusting after me you'd get very different replies compared to when you mention religions. Many users know nothing about other religions and will okay any abuse or oppression on religuois or cultural grounds, just so they don't get called the r word. Which they like to use for others as they just don't get it.

What's the alternative though? We either allow them (unlike France) and have women from various religious backgrounds to integrate , socialise and have exposure to various ways of thinking and ways of life or we ban /shame/judge them and have those women (and sometimes their children) become even more isolated and restricted, especially if wearing something or other is not a choice.

slimeandfearmetro · 07/05/2023 22:51

pinkappleorpineapple · 07/05/2023 22:30

I would notice, it would stand out where I currently live as it's not very diverse (deepest Southwest).
I'd feel sorry that anyone thinks they need to cover up so much but up to them. Actually reading the OP's replies and explanations only I'm even more against religious connotations of modesty, WTF you have to cover up in front of even other women, and men can't wear red or don't trust a scholar if you can see his hair. Like it makes no logical sense, and as concepts sounds harmful and body shaming. Passing those views down to children is quite sad.
I wouldn't voice any of this to someone in the pool, but I don't really believe that all these behaviours, when dictated by a religion, are actually a choice. That goes for all religions, I'm not in favour of any.

You're right about religiously-compelled behaviour not being a free choice, but we don't get to choose people's religion's for them, and frequently they don't really get to choose them either. There's several religious sects, including at least two Christian offshoots, where apostates are shunned by the whole community, including their families. Remaining outwardly a believer isn't really a choice for members of those communities.

What we can do is take reasonable steps to prevent people from being excluded from public life by their religiously-compelled behaviours.

Snowtrails · 07/05/2023 22:51

ArcticSkewer · 07/05/2023 21:23

It's an opinion. People have different ones. Op asked. I don't like them in public baths. The sea/rivers - whatever.

I'm assuming hers was at least swimming costume material.

Op will get lots of affirming views on this thread but as she found out, some people do consider them to be pretty unhygienic. They are banned in French pools in some regions (or possibly everywhere I am not sure), along with long board shorts (which are also often worn before going into the pool and pick up dirt, along with the excess material). I'm with the French on that. The British are quite minging in general though - see also sauna etiquette.

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What makes them unhygienic?
It's really unhygienic not to wash before going into pool, but you can't do that at British pools.

Ludlow2 · 07/05/2023 22:53

I think they are great OP.

Wear what you want and ignore the haters.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 07/05/2023 22:54

Would bother me less if men abided by the same rules but they never have to, do they?

There are two very fascinating threads in AMA by Jewish women. One of them said her husband won't go to the pool or the beach, because of religious reasons but she does go with her girlfriends.

Neverquitehappy · 07/05/2023 22:55

@SleepingStandingUp

Lucky she has you here to tell you how she should think and what she should wear

Well, yes of course except I haven’t done either of those things 😵‍💫

I don’t think it’s an uncommon opinion to think if OP hadn’t been brought up with religious beliefs then she wouldn’t be as concerned about maintaining her ‘modesty.’

declutteringmymind · 07/05/2023 22:55

If someone has a problem with a burkini, it's their problem. Ignore and carry on.

I look at them and think I need one.

Rightnowstraightaway · 07/05/2023 22:55

I have no problem with a burkini. I am currently looking for a new swimsuit and, whilst I am not seeking a burkini I am looking for something with sleeves and shorts. A) because I get cold easily, even in warm water, and b) I HATE HATE HATE shaving my bikini line/public area.

I have lived in the Middle East where I wore an abeya, although I am not Muslim and didn't have to, and I like the Arab fashion in the country I was in though. I might look at you if you were wearing a burkini but only in the same way I'd admire anyone's swim wear.

Rightnowstraightaway · 07/05/2023 22:56

Ps the hygiene arguments make zero sense to me.

lilacbunny · 07/05/2023 22:56

I am Muslim.
I don't wear hijab

But I wear a full swimming suit (very stylish one) that covers from neck down long sleeved etc. no-one says anything (I dare them)

Received a few looks but nothing else

Don't stress about it

LangClegsInSpace · 07/05/2023 22:56

Not clear how to vote but I have no problem with what anyone wears to swim as long as their bits are covered.

slimeandfearmetro · 07/05/2023 22:58

Mvslimah · 07/05/2023 22:43

Who has sneered at you? no one (with any decency anyway) would say you’re asking for it because you wear leggings or a t shirt or a mini skirt.

my husband also wouldn’t get aroused at the sight of your elbow

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You're both correct that it's never a rape victim's fault. The perp doesn't need to see your butt cheeks to want to rape you, he just needs to know that you've got a vagina. He can tell that regardless of whether you wear a burka or a bikini. A fanny's not like a rolex watch that you can take off and leave at home.

Yellowdays · 07/05/2023 22:58

It doesn't matter what other people wear. I wouldn't care.

fairywhale · 07/05/2023 22:59

Mvslimah · 07/05/2023 22:29

^that read as arsey and I didn’t mean it too rather I think we should question as to why to dress modestly is seen as such a big deal, it’s just one of our values

Because it goes against the values of most people in this country such as freedom, liberty, equality and tolerance. All the things that make it a wonderful place for a woman to be here.
You are suggesting woman's body is offensive. This would be a new and alien concept in the UK. As well as that men can't contain themselves if they look at your hair or elbow or whatever.
You are suggesting that women are to be covered up but men don't particulary need to. This goes against the principles of equality in this country.
And there is no logic to it, the more on display, the more desensitised we are. No need to start sexualising parts of body that have never been even considered sexual.
There is no freedom in that choice. Most people in the communities where women do that are conditioned from birth into that "choice" and are strictly punished for making a different choice once older.
You can argue it's your choice but if you think about it, it is not. There is often shaming, rejection, ostricising and, as you well know, even worse repercussions for making a different choice. Plus the expectation, conditioning and brainwashing from birth.