To be sad about grandparents not helping childcare

[ChickenRacer]

Ive heard so many stories about grandparents not wanting to help/be particularly involved with their grandchildren.I understand it’s not all grandparents, but their is a big proportion who just don’t help and support their children when they have small children.

Explanations for this often seem to be that the grandparents did their time parenting and now it’s their time to enjoy life. Which I do understand.

But to me though this seems so sad.

They say it takes a village to raise children - but grandparents are a huge part of many peoples village, so if they aren’t part of the village that’s less support for parents of young children.

This might upset some people, but I also wonder those grandparents that do not feel they want to help with the care of their grandchildren- do they still expect their adult children to care for them in their old age when they themselves need care? Will they pay their children to care for them, as some expect to be paid for caring for their grandchildren?

Please don’t be all upset by this, they are genuine questions.

I have 3 children and for various reasons have ZERO help from grandparents. But I very much hope if I am lucky enough to have grandchildren that I will be able to help my children with them in the best way for them. And I wouldn’t want them to have to care for me in my old age. 🤷‍♀️

Surely any help you give to aging parents, if you want to be so transactional about it, is the pay back for the sacrifices they made in raising you.
If your parents need to put in 18 years with you plus another half dozen with your children, for maybe a couple of years of you picking up their shopping, setting up their internet, and taking them to hospital appointments In return; then you drive a pretty hard bargain, and may be in danger of pricing yourself out of the market.

To describe the idea that someone might be expected to very ocassionally, at their own convenience, spend a few hours with their own nieces/ nephews/ grandchildren as an "obligation" is really messed up. It's the whole point of family.

There's no single definition of family though - everyone is different.

But this is fine. You babysit sometimes, you give them a break, you have them to stay over sometimes. That's normal.

The people who are really messed up are the ones who never do anything like that. In 7 years I've not had family take DC out for a day, or have them stay overnight, or babysit. Not once. They refer to spending an hour with my DC in my garden while I fold washing upstairs (has happened twice in their lifetime) as "childcare". They clearly resent the presence of the younger members of our family and view spending time with them as an imposition. It's insulting to the children and extremely unpleasant. They just want to "play" grandparents without lifting a finger with me present at all times to facilitate, and then wait on them hand and foot as well as the children. Never lift a finger. Knowing I'm a lone parent and disabled. It's so selfish and callous.

I don't think people are complaining about people like you who look after GC so parents can have a night away sometimes! Could only dream of that. When I was in hospital overnight I had to hire an overnight nanny...

Indeed.

But some people's definition of it shows them to be extremely selfish and callous people who don't deserve a family.

Everyone’s view of family is different.

Your view may differ from the views of your parents. Your kids are your responsibility and as none of your family got a say in bringing them into the world they’re not obliged to provide childcare. You didn’t consult the village before having children so why are they then made responsible for decisions they didn’t make?

Thats not to say that it wouldn’t be nice if they would offer to help in emergencies-it would. I have a nephew and I love spending time with him and want to be an active presence in his life.

I just don’t think it’s something that should be forced on people who don’t want it-even family.

It’s funny isn’t it?

How some people define a family to be whatever suits them and anything that goes against that from others equates to them being selfish and callous and undeserving of family.

All because they didn’t cater to the demands to provide childcare for children they had no say in creating.

Good for you. But such people don't deserve the benefits of family if they also won't lift a finger to help anyone else and make children feel like they are unimportant because they are far, far too busy sat on their backsides doing sweet FA to inconvenience themselves to spend any time with their own grandchildren. Anyone with such a definition of family doesn't really understand the purpose of it.

I find it interesting that you've decided that anyone who doesn't want to provide childcare is "selfish and callous".

Why is your definition of "family" the right one, and why do you feel that anyone who disagrees is "undeserving"?

Sounds pretty unpleasant to me.

It’s funny isn’t it?

Yeah, hilarious.

All because they didn’t cater to the demands to provide childcare for children they had no say in creating.

It's vile to refer to the idea that one might very occasionally spend time with one's grandchildren as "childcare".

No, they just have a different definition to you.

Your thinking seems very black and white - like anyone who doesn't agree with your idea of family is automatically a horrible person.

What else would it be? If you’re asking them to care for your kids- it’s childcare. That’s not vile. It’s a fact.

Do you genuinely feel like grandparents have to spend time with their grandchildren alone in order to be considered family?

I find it interesting that you've decided that anyone who doesn't want to provide childcare is "selfish and callous".

How many times? I have never asked my family to do "childcare." I have nannies for that.

I thought they might occasionally want to spend some time with their grandchilden.

Why is your definition of "family" the right one, and why do you feel that anyone who disagrees is "undeserving"?

Because people who have no interest in spending time with their wider family clearly don't understand the notion. If you don't spend time with your family, how could the idea mean anything of significance?

Sounds pretty unpleasant to me.

Well yes, your posts have indeed shown a very unpleasant attitude.

Grandparents can come and visit and have quality time with their grandchildren without taking sole responsibility for them though, surely?

My grandparents never had sole care of me when I was growing up (for a whole variety of reasons) - it never impacted the closeness our relationship and I was devastated when they passed away.

I'm not the one calling people callous and selfish and telling them they don't deserve a family, so I'm not sure where you get off on calling me the unpleasant one 🙄

Your thinking seems very black and white - like anyone who doesn't agree with your idea of family is automatically a horrible person.

There's just not much point in them having a family if they have no interest in being around other family members, is there?

I'd love to know what this alternative and better definition of family is that involves not caring about the other members or spending any time with them and how that would be more beneficial for everyone. Ridiculous.

Not everything is subjective. It is possible to look at and study human behaviour and social structures and determine what tends to create healthy, happy families and relationships and what doesn't. You proposal that families treat each other like acquaintances - based on the copious research on these topics - does not appear to be one that is likely to have better outcomes for individuals or society as a whole.

so I'm not sure where you get off on calling me the unpleasant one 🙄

The views you have expressed are unpleasant, yes.

And I think you'll find it was actually you that accused me of being unpleasant.

I don't have time for this, I have a family to spend time with. 😆 Clearly you are spending your time not bothering with yours to great effect, so I'll leave you to it.

Ooh, I'm hurt 😂

Neither side were very involved grandparents but now they need elderly support - I’m too busy be self sufficient and living my life to care for them - we visit occasionally though. What goes around..,,

This takes a village nonsense is just another way of saying we/I don't want to parent alone. People who have kids should know it's their kids and are not entitled to think that anyone else will help out.

And it's pretty much always women who are expected to give their time up as well - these threads are rarely ever about how dad/FIL won't provide several days of free childcare.

What else would it be? If you’re asking them to care for your kids- it’s childcare. That’s not vile. It’s a fact.

Just being a family! When I'm with my children I'm not "doing childcare", it's just family time. When I sit on the sofa and they're in bed it's not "babysitting". People who look after ageing parents haven't become "care workers". It's just a normal part of behaving as normal families do, to spend time together and help each other out and most people enjoy most of the time they spend as a family, tragic circumstances and severe illness etc aside. They don't resent it and view it as an imposition or somehow equivalent to work that a stranger would have to pay you for. If that is how you view it then as I said, your notion of what "family" means needs a good rethink.

WildFlowerBees
Some people definitely have that mentality.

I do think there's some truth in it taking a village, and am certainly grateful for the friends/family/neighbours we have, but don't think that the 'village' automatically equals expecting (female) grandparents to provide childcare. Sometimes people use the phrase "it takes a village" to focus on what they can get out people, rather than creating and nurturing authentic relationships with people and all being there for each other in different ways.

Taking care of children is childcare.

You can dress it up all you want to try and paint anyone who dares not provide you with what you feel entitled to but it is childcare.

if you want someone, family or not, to look after your children in your absence, they are providing you with childcare.

Exactly.

Grandparents should never feel pressured into being in sole charge of grandchildren. They can come and visit them with the parents present, or join them on family days out, or host everyone at their house.

That's how it worked in my family growing up and it was absolutely fine. I loved my grandparents and we were very close despite them never having sole care of me - which was the case for a whole variety of reasons.

I agree that grandparents shouldn't have to provide constant childcare especially if they're older. What bugged me about both our sets of grandparents was the complete lack of help in general and almost wilful uselessness. Also the demands for our presence at family events with no concessions made for tired toddlers and breastfeeding babies. Not even an offer to hold a baby or take the pram for a short walk. Complaints about us putting fully wrapped nappies in the outdoor wheelie bin when visiting. Sighing when we had to tie blankets over their thin cotton bedroom curtains when staying overnight so baby wouldn't wake at 4am. DHs parents swanning off on 10 holidays per year, plenty of energy, but only happy to see us on their terms and not very often. No offers of occasional babysitting. Resentment from my mum when she had my daughter for one night due to an evening family occasion on DHs side. Just an awful attitude. Children are genuinely lovely, not naughty, but have a fairly distant relationship with their gparents as a result. I would feel so lucky to have grandchildren one day and would definitely want to help and have a closer relationship with them. I used to stay with my grandparents most holidays but my mum conveniently forgets this and pretends it hardly happened, but I was often there for a full week at a time. I feel sad my children haven't had a loving, close relationship like that with their grandparents. I don't understand it at all, they've missed out massively.