To think this is not what parental leave is for?

[Friendlybreadbin]

I may well BU but interested in people’s opinions. My company offers a fairly standard 25 days plus bank holidays leave package. New colleague comes from a company where they had been for over 20 years and so had got up to 30 days, their old company also offered a ‘buy an additional 10 days leave’ package. Our company doesn’t. Having passed their 3 month probation period (where they also took a lot of leave) they are using leave days like they are going out of fashion, and have already had a skiing holiday and an all inclusive this year. As well as lots of other random days off, it’s seems rare they work a full week. Have been openly saying that they intend to take unpaid leave because they can’t see how they will possibly manage on 25 days when they were used to 40 days and asking how does anyone do that with kids? I have not dissimilar aged kids and have managed with 25 days for my whole career. There are no special needs or circumstances. Their job is flexible and from home.
AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract? Or as the extra leave is unpaid is this an acceptable strategy? It seems to me they intend to exploit parental leave just because they feel entitled to more holiday than they are contracted to have.
Our company charges customers rates for their time and will therefore lose revenue as we can’t charge when they are OOO. I am their line manager.
I have managed people for 20 years and have never come across anyone with this attitude before, when I have managed people who have taken parental leave it has been for understandable reasons.

@dementedpixie

You are correct. Sorry I misread that.

ODFOD

It's not playing the system, it IS the system. How can you take the piss out of something that exists for a good reason.

I suppose you think maternity leave and working part time is playing the system too do you.

Most people can't afford to take much unpaid leave anyway. Especially in NHS.

Meh. In my experience it's the child free who are most sharp elbowed.

Don't like it? Get more sharp elbowed. Or speak to your manager whose job it is to, you know, manage things like this.

@Throwncrumbs not everyone but some do. Some people dont take it in bulk they agree with their boss to work a three day week or something for a set period of time and this uses up their parental leave aswell. Another colleague of hers took it in April there and is only back there now. But that what's worked for them and the company they work for agrees to it. Its their right to use it as per the company policy and if management agree and complied with company policy to it then it it has fuck all to do with anyone else. Is not selfish and its up to management to ensure that their is cover

You also wouldn't get paid at all, which would make the job somewhat moot 😂

What a weird and totally unrealistic example to give.

Why is it cheeky?

It sounds like he's been taking leave than he hasn't accrued. Surely he only accrues one week per 2.5 months at work - it sounds as though he's taken more than that? Also he doesn't have any right to unpaid leave (apart from parental leave) so you can just say no to that suggestion.

Parental leave has to be taken in blocks of a week minimum. You can't just take odd days or a day a week

No comment on the Parental leave side of it... but other 'unpaid' leave doesn't have to be approved. We certainly don't at my company.
You have your annual leave entitlement, but we would never approve unpaid leave to work as additional annual leave days. It's the only way to be fair to everyone while keeping sufficient numbers to keep the business operational.

@SnackSizeRaisin maybe in the UK i am based in Ireland and this is what has been done for collogues and friends of mine. Its unpaid

You don’t need to wait to accrue leave before taking it. The only time this is relevant is if you leave the job part way through the year where you might need to have your final salary adjusted if you have taken more leave than you accrued, but for employees continuing for the whole leave year it’s completely irrelevant and they can take it all right at the beginning of the year if they want to, subject to business needs.

Well I guess that's at the discretion of the employer. The employee doesn't have the right to choose when they take their annual leave. Some employers may let you start and then take it immediately but that's never been my experience.

It doesn’t sound like that at all. I have never worked anywhere in the UK where you have to accrue your leave month by month. When you start a new job mid year, you are told what your prorated entitlement is for the rest of the year and you can take it any time you want (subject to management approval).

What this sounds like is simply that the new employee plans to use up all his prorated leave early and then ask for unpaid leave - just as the OP has said.

I can’t believe the number of people piling on the OP. This guy has a shitty attitude to work, is not meeting his targets because of it, and is causing reputational damage by not billing the hours he is supposed to. Yes, work life balance is important. But that includes actually doing the work. And not causing undue problems for your coworkers if it can be avoided. Selfishness and entitlement at its finest here. OP, I would be talking to HR about his performance issues, he’s taking the piss.

It might be legislation but it doesn’t mean it’s right to take the piss out of it… stay home with your kids, don’t work, get free childcare paid for by the tax payer…
Struth some people really know how to play the system and be unpopular with their work mates!
It's not taking the piss to use a system of unpaid parental leave that is there for people to use according to their personal circumstances.

Not sure why you've gone off on a weird rant about not working, getting free childcare and playing the system.

Tax free childcare offers a government top-up for some families based on the earnings in the house and both parents in a two parents house need to earn above the threshold unless they meet certain criteria (eg on maternity leave).

Maybe if, as you say, places are finding it hard to recruit they should consider what they're offering to potential employees in terms of salary, flexible working, holiday allowance, working conditions etc.

Bitter people moaning that nobody should do nice things and should put work above their children aren't doing their companies or society any good.

I'm actually gobsmacked that people think it's okay to just take unpaid time off because they don't have enough annual leave. Fair enough if a childcare situation occurs or a family emergency but just because they want to spend more time with their kids.
What do all the older mother's or childless people do if they fancy a bit more time off?
You can bet she won't work any Christmas's or new year's because "children".

Ffsmakeitstop
Because it's unpaid parental leave. It's there for people to take should they wish or need to be with their children.

Welcome to the UK in 2023, where workers will bitch at other workers for using policies designed to make life a bit easier for working parents.

Swear some people think that we should bring kids into this world, put them in nursery asap, then have them in schools and childcare for the next 18 years other than couple of a year that parents should be graciously allowed to spend with their own children.

It is entirely lawful under the working time regulations and very common for workplaces to require employees within their first year of employment to accrue leave before they take it. You have been fortunate your employers haven’t been aware of or haven’t implemented it.

Not quite. Employers can require employees accrue leave before taking it in their first year of employment. This is provided for in the working time regulations. After the first year of employment, you are correct that you don’t need to accrue before taking.

Sounds like you're entitled to refuse unpaid leave but parental leave you'll have to grant, but don't forget you can be restrictive around when he can take it.

Wait till you hear about SAHMs!!!!!

Actually it CAN be taken as individual days for parents who have children with SEN, AND at the discretion of employers ie if they agree to it. Obviously there's no obligation for them to do so, but it absolutely is possible.

We’re planning to move back to Europe before DD starts school, and her preschool is year round. I’m also lucky that I can take extra leave unpaid. There are “summer camps” for school kids that is basically a drop in program that takes place during school breaks. So the childcare is available but that’s not really the point, the work/life balance is just poor (and noone seems to question it!!! I probably come across as smug when talking about our norm of 4-6 weeks off)

I was a SAHM for a while thanks. So I know all I need to know. Including working with cheeky fuckers who think their needs trump everyone else's.

I'm actually gobsmacked that people think it's okay to just take unpaid time off because they don't have enough annual leave. Fair enough if a childcare situation occurs or a family emergency but just because they want to spend more time with their kids.

Eh? Have you even read the thread? Unpaid parental leave is LITERALLY for spending more time with their kids. Look here - https://www.gov.uk/parental-leave

I'm gobsmacked that people don't have a clue!