To think this is not what parental leave is for?

[Friendlybreadbin]

I may well BU but interested in people’s opinions. My company offers a fairly standard 25 days plus bank holidays leave package. New colleague comes from a company where they had been for over 20 years and so had got up to 30 days, their old company also offered a ‘buy an additional 10 days leave’ package. Our company doesn’t. Having passed their 3 month probation period (where they also took a lot of leave) they are using leave days like they are going out of fashion, and have already had a skiing holiday and an all inclusive this year. As well as lots of other random days off, it’s seems rare they work a full week. Have been openly saying that they intend to take unpaid leave because they can’t see how they will possibly manage on 25 days when they were used to 40 days and asking how does anyone do that with kids? I have not dissimilar aged kids and have managed with 25 days for my whole career. There are no special needs or circumstances. Their job is flexible and from home.
AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract? Or as the extra leave is unpaid is this an acceptable strategy? It seems to me they intend to exploit parental leave just because they feel entitled to more holiday than they are contracted to have.
Our company charges customers rates for their time and will therefore lose revenue as we can’t charge when they are OOO. I am their line manager.
I have managed people for 20 years and have never come across anyone with this attitude before, when I have managed people who have taken parental leave it has been for understandable reasons.

Parental leave is a legal right, you need a very good reason to refuse.
It is hard juggling school holidays especially with multiple young DC, not everyone has good support networks.
And tbh Im pretty sure you dont have to justify why you want parental leave, its unpaid and they have to give advance notice.
Your companies annual leave policy is above legal minimum and I would have said is reasonsble average, neither tight or overly generous. Its what I get but I can and do buy extra leave. There was a thread on here recently which was a real eye opener and seems now many companies give 30 days plus BHs

What do all the older mother's or childless people do if they fancy a bit more time off?
You can bet she won't work any Christmas's or new year's because "children".

We don’t get it - where I work, unpaid leave is never granted because we’re so busy.

And yes, parents never work Christmas and NYs.

I don’t want these rights to be removed but I wouldn’t mind if someone thought about someone other than parents just once. Living in fantasyland there though!

Sounds like you just need to move jobs. I know several childless people in their 20s and 30s who have taken a sabbatical in the last year.

Plenty of parents work Christmas or NYE.
My own mother worked either Christmas Eve or Christmas night every year for 25 years in the nhs.

The ‘woe is me’ because parents are able to take unpaid leave to care for their dependents is so boring now.

Ive never worked anywhere you had to work Christmas or NYE, in fact the office is closed that week and the days either taken from annual leave or its in addition to your annual leave. I also have the option to buy more annual leave if I want. Its always dead in August so no one cares how much leave you take then. Its also standard for anyone to be able to take a sabbatical after a certain amount of tenure. That being said, I have only ever worked for large global orgs who take employee attraction and retention very seriously.
But OP there is no requirement to offer unpaid leave in your first year, and I would be making that quite clear to him as he sounds like a bit of a pisstaker.

Like most policies that people without young children whinge about, it's mainly for the benefit of the child. Maybe the child needs hospital treatment or looking after in summer holidays or time with their parent, kids do need time with their parents you know, post bereavement or for many other reasons.

This is like all the complaining about maternity leave and how childless people should get 9 months leave too. Maternity leave is mainly to benefit the baby. The 2 week period of mandatory post birth leave where it is not legal to return to work, that's for the mother.

None of your examples apply in the ops situation.
Fyi I have 3 children and when they were small I was a SAHM until the youngest was 5, although I did do childminding for about 3 years and once mine were in school I had several part time jobs which fitted around my dh's work so I could spend lots of time with my kids.
Ops colleague has used a lot of leave already to do things without his kids so that's clearly not why he needs unpaid leave. It's not jealousy to not want to pick up the slack for people who work just when they want to.

How much is he actually allowed vs his desire to use ?

He hasn’t said yet how much he intends to take. But he used to have 30 days and buy 10, so I am anticipating that he will be taking 40 instead of 25.

And are you in the position to add more resources and then have a rule that people can't usually be off at the same time?

When married with 3 children, my husband worked away from home. I bought 4 weeks unpaid leave every year and took it in the summer holidays. My team were very supportive. One person wasnt but she was a cow in all aspects of work life. Lots did it in my office. Nhs. Thousands employed. Lots of women with kids and without. People without kids were approved for it also. Wage was pro rata for the year. Did it for many years. Went back full time when youngest was 10. Was so grateful for it over the years.

I took unpaid leave for the first time this year after learning it can be used simply to spend time with my children. My company encourage it and I am grateful for that. You won’t get these years back!!

The option is there for anyone with children under 18, perhaps you feel aggrieved because you haven’t used it. But you can!

It's also worth considering the financial implications- if you are really near the cut off for child benefit that week or two off unpaid can make a massive difference

@Tigofigo that’s what I said, it can be declined/postponed but and alternative week has to be offered within 6 months. It’s not kicking the can down the road if there is a time that will impact the business less. Strange you try to correct my totally correct post.

I'm with him! He's bucking the system- bravo!

I am entitled to and use parental leave almost every year. It is a fantastic way to spend more time with my children and the financial sacrifice for us is very little as otherwise they would be in a plethora of expensive holiday clubs etc. You may well manage with 25 days holiday each year but others may not manage as easily and even if they can, may make different choice for their families. Parental leave is something absolutely fantastic in my opinion.

Ops colleague has used a lot of leave already to do things without his kids so that's clearly not why he needs unpaid leave.

What, so he's spent some time with his kids so now he should be done?!

Unpaid parental leave is brilliant. More people need to know about their rights- this thread has been eye-openinf as I'm amazed so many people didn't know that this existed, or thought it was just for emergencies. We spend most of our kids' childhoods at work, so of course the option if having unpaid parental leave is a good thing. Good for him I say!

Most companies have limits re. unpaid leave. You don’t have to approve it if it’s affecting the business.

Can he take the extra 15 as unpaid al? As in, is he entitled to the extra unpaid leave, or is unpaid leave capped? 15 days seems like a lot.
At what point do you say I can't approve any more unpaid leave as it's affecting the business/your provision to your clients?

It'd be nice to be well paid enough to be able to take 15 days unpaid!

Sorry to hear you worked with cheeky fuckers, rather than people merely taking their legally entitled leave...

I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong but are you seriously telling me that an employee can take unpaid parental leave for 'anything'? So for example, a weeks holiday? That can't be right

I had no idea about the parental leave allowance! Fairly useless to me as I teach and kids are now in school, but dh lost a few weeks holiday when he moved jobs and it’s great to think he could take extra! Whether he will I’m not sure but it’s great it’s a possibility!

Many thanks OP

They have entitlement to take leave in this manner because they in fact are entitled to take leave in this manner. Maybe worth digging to see what is really bothering you about this - if you passed this employee through the 3 month probation that suggests general work and attitude is satisfactory, so perhaps this is a you problem (as in it’s telling you about yourself and some unmet need). It is unreasonable to be annoyed by people doing what they are entitled to do.

I struggled so others should too.

Toxic attitude