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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is not what parental leave is for?

409 replies

Friendlybreadbin · 03/05/2023 21:07

I may well BU but interested in people’s opinions. My company offers a fairly standard 25 days plus bank holidays leave package. New colleague comes from a company where they had been for over 20 years and so had got up to 30 days, their old company also offered a ‘buy an additional 10 days leave’ package. Our company doesn’t. Having passed their 3 month probation period (where they also took a lot of leave) they are using leave days like they are going out of fashion, and have already had a skiing holiday and an all inclusive this year. As well as lots of other random days off, it’s seems rare they work a full week. Have been openly saying that they intend to take unpaid leave because they can’t see how they will possibly manage on 25 days when they were used to 40 days and asking how does anyone do that with kids? I have not dissimilar aged kids and have managed with 25 days for my whole career. There are no special needs or circumstances. Their job is flexible and from home.
AIBU that they should learn to manage within their holiday allowance that they accepted by contract? Or as the extra leave is unpaid is this an acceptable strategy? It seems to me they intend to exploit parental leave just because they feel entitled to more holiday than they are contracted to have.
Our company charges customers rates for their time and will therefore lose revenue as we can’t charge when they are OOO. I am their line manager.
I have managed people for 20 years and have never come across anyone with this attitude before, when I have managed people who have taken parental leave it has been for understandable reasons.

OP posts:
bluetongue · 04/05/2023 12:53

There should be the equivalent of the parental leave allowance for everyone, parent or not.

There are people out there who can’t have children or don’t to be parents. Everyone needs a better work / life balance.

Original poster
Friendlybreadbin · 04/05/2023 12:58

Agree what he does on his leave is his business and no I’m not judging it. That comment was made to address those who thought his holiday/leave was all about spending time with the kids - it isn’t. But that is completely his business how he spends his leave.
The comment above about ‘how can it possibly affect the business as everyone has has the same leave’ is exactly the point. He is planning on taking far more leave than everyone else in the business. And we charge his customers for his services on an annual basis, which has set hours associated which he has only now announced he won’t fulfil.
I have approved all his leave requests so far as he is entitled to his leave and I’m not actually an arse. I just commented to him that he had used a lot of his leave so early in the year, and that’s when he announced his unpaid leave plan, followed by parental leave when he’d been there a year. So this was news to me, having been fairly approving his leave to that point.

OP posts:
fitzwilliamdarcy · 04/05/2023 13:27

I voted YABU, it is what it’s for.

My only gripe is that there’s no equivalent for people who have families that aren’t their kids. I’ve been denied every single request for unpaid leave on the basis of business need but my colleagues regularly take whole summers off because parental leave is always granted. The childless staff do loads of cover for the parents, too, so this is just an added point of irritation.

But yes YABU, sorry. It sounds like you need more staff (as does my employer!)

AngryBirdsNoMore · 04/05/2023 13:27

This has absolutely blown mine and DH’s minds.

We have one child and expecting another.

36 weeks unpaid leave entitlement between now and 2041.

Viviennemary · 04/05/2023 13:33

Can't blieve its being used by parents just to get longer holidays. Quite cheeky I think.

Frankola · 04/05/2023 13:37

I had an old colleague who used to take parental leave and go on holidays. She used to make sure she maximised her sick leave too. I know of one time she had a week off "sick" but really she had the builders in doing her extension 😂

Viviennemary · 04/05/2023 13:37

Imagine of you had 10 children. Thats nearly 4 years unpaid leave entitlement. Plus maternity leave. Probably would hardly need to work at all. Madness.

Radi0Star · 04/05/2023 13:39

I'm a business owner and think that flexibility and generous time off is vital to help valued staff replenish themselves and actually feel valued, and for the company to retain them. As others have said, family time and rest time is really important. I don't understand why anyone would disagree with that if they want to retain staff and provide a workplace people actually want to work in.

Your post mentions "all-inclusive" and "Skiing" holidays but I really don't think it's any of your business what this colleague does with her time off, and listing those things makes me question if you are in fact a little bit envious of her life.

She is prioritising her family time and what is wrong with that? Good for her and you should try the same - you might end up happier.

MrDrEvilPorkChopToYou · 04/05/2023 13:51

Viviennemary · 04/05/2023 13:37

Imagine of you had 10 children. Thats nearly 4 years unpaid leave entitlement. Plus maternity leave. Probably would hardly need to work at all. Madness.

…with an emphasis on “unpaid” of course…

There's nothing wrong with it being used for whatever purposes, so long as the employee is eligible for it. I haven’t taken any in ages as the kids are older, but a while ago I used to take a couple of week per year as PL, and use those for holidays. Then my AL covered all the other things such as childcare needs. My manager knew exactly what I was doing and supported me all the way.

Wexone · 04/05/2023 13:55

@Viviennemary how is it cheeky ? A friend of mine uses it for two weeks every summer she also takes two weeks holidays, one paid either side of the two week parental leave. The kids have two months off school, its hard to get childcare - as this page should know- she applies in advance as per the rules of her company, her company approves it and she makes sure work is covered. She gets to spend quality time with her kids all be it at home or actually go on a holiday. As its unpaid she does have to save to prepare for it . Her husband does something similar for the other month they are off aswell as kids club. Its time she will never get back with hers kids and its there to be used, its not taking the piss like - that's people using sick pay as holidays etc. A male collogue in my department does similar with his child. Its most certainly not being cheeky

Mortimercat · 04/05/2023 13:58

Viviennemary · 04/05/2023 13:37

Imagine of you had 10 children. Thats nearly 4 years unpaid leave entitlement. Plus maternity leave. Probably would hardly need to work at all. Madness.

That makes no sense. It is unpaid leave. So everybody would have the choice to not work for four years, just by resigning.

Bargellobitch · 04/05/2023 14:04

Why do you care? About the leave or the lost revenue? It's not your company. People are way too invested in their work.

Throwncrumbs · 04/05/2023 14:07

Yeah, just imagine all those nurses and doctors wanting to take the maximum parental leave just when they feel like it! The NHS is on its knees as it is, but never mind, stay home with your kids!No wonder companies find it hard to recruit and when they do the staff don’t ever think they should be there . It might be legislation but it doesn’t mean it’s right to take the piss out of it… stay home with your kids, don’t work, get free childcare paid for by the tax payer… Struth some people really know how to play the system and be unpopular with their work mates!

Throwncrumbs · 04/05/2023 14:07

Bargellobitch · 04/05/2023 14:04

Why do you care? About the leave or the lost revenue? It's not your company. People are way too invested in their work.

That’s why companies go bust!

Sissynova · 04/05/2023 14:08

Viviennemary · 04/05/2023 13:37

Imagine of you had 10 children. Thats nearly 4 years unpaid leave entitlement. Plus maternity leave. Probably would hardly need to work at all. Madness.

Why would you have a job at all if you didn’t want to work at all though? It’s UNPAID!

Throwncrumbs · 04/05/2023 14:09

Wexone · 04/05/2023 13:55

@Viviennemary how is it cheeky ? A friend of mine uses it for two weeks every summer she also takes two weeks holidays, one paid either side of the two week parental leave. The kids have two months off school, its hard to get childcare - as this page should know- she applies in advance as per the rules of her company, her company approves it and she makes sure work is covered. She gets to spend quality time with her kids all be it at home or actually go on a holiday. As its unpaid she does have to save to prepare for it . Her husband does something similar for the other month they are off aswell as kids club. Its time she will never get back with hers kids and its there to be used, its not taking the piss like - that's people using sick pay as holidays etc. A male collogue in my department does similar with his child. Its most certainly not being cheeky

So does everyone do that at her company? Probably not, why should they not get a summer holiday because she chose to have kids and have a job! It’s a piss take, and fucking selfish!

Fandabedodgy · 04/05/2023 14:14

Unpaid Parental leave is a statutory right that all parents of under 18's are legally entitled to each year. (4 weeks per year)

They don't have to justify why they are taking it.

Unpaid parental leave: Overview - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Unpaid parental leave

Employer and employee guide to unpaid parental leave - eligibility, how much leave can be taken and notice periods

https://www.gov.uk/parental-leave

TeapotCollection · 04/05/2023 14:15

You don’t have to let them have unpaid leave this year surely? The company I work for certainly doesn’t allow it

Sissynova · 04/05/2023 14:17

Throwncrumbs · 04/05/2023 14:09

So does everyone do that at her company? Probably not, why should they not get a summer holiday because she chose to have kids and have a job! It’s a piss take, and fucking selfish!

Show quote history

Why would someone else not get a holiday because someone with kids is entitled to unpaid leave? You make no sense.
Or are you a loon who thinks maternity leave, paternity leave and sick leave are all selfish too? 🙄

Fandabedodgy · 04/05/2023 14:20

Viviennemary · 04/05/2023 13:37

Imagine of you had 10 children. Thats nearly 4 years unpaid leave entitlement. Plus maternity leave. Probably would hardly need to work at all. Madness.

You are limited to 4 weeks per year, per parent, irrespective of the quantity of children. Up to a maximum of 18 weeks per child by the time they reach 18.

So no one is going to be able to take 4 years even if their child bearing is spread over decades.

BarbaraofSeville · 04/05/2023 14:21

Why would someone else not get a holiday because someone with kids is entitled to unpaid leave

Because many places only allow a certain number of people to be off at any one time, so if you're competing against the sharp elbowed who 'know their rights' you might find you never get a choice of time off and you end up taking your annual leave in November and February.

Plus the job still needs to be done, and it's a rare employer that 'just gets more staff' so the work is left to the people who are in.

Sissynova · 04/05/2023 14:22

@BarbaraofSeville I’m sure everyone is just dying to take unpaid leave!!

dementedpixie · 04/05/2023 14:23

Fandabedodgy · 04/05/2023 14:20

You are limited to 4 weeks per year, per parent, irrespective of the quantity of children. Up to a maximum of 18 weeks per child by the time they reach 18.

So no one is going to be able to take 4 years even if their child bearing is spread over decades.

Show quote history

It's 4 weeks per year, per child, per parent so you could have more than 4 weeks if you have multiple children

NotAnotherBathBomb · 04/05/2023 14:24

Sissynova · 04/05/2023 14:17

Why would someone else not get a holiday because someone with kids is entitled to unpaid leave? You make no sense.
Or are you a loon who thinks maternity leave, paternity leave and sick leave are all selfish too? 🙄

Show quote history

i assume the PP is referring to a business that would deny the request of an employee for leave during the summer due to them having enough people off during that time on parental leave and needing people to cover.

but that’s a the problem of the company and not of the parents exercising their right. Also, a child free person could book a summer holiday in June or early July, prices are cheaper and there won’t be any kids around, makes more sense.

But the flip side could be they’re arranging holiday with family who can only go during school holidays I suppose

shivawn · 04/05/2023 14:25

Who cares? It's unpaid leave. I really couldn't get myself worked up over what colleagues do with their parental leave.

My husband gets 7 weeks of fully paid parents leave from his company to use in the first 2 years of his child's life. I think this will go up to 9 weeks for our next child. He uses that fully paid leave for whatever suits us, whether it's holidays, diy jobs around the house or caring for elderly parents when they're sick. No one is nosy enough to ask whether he is spending every second of it with his kid.

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