Do you think teachers are paid too little?

[Looooop]

I've just read an article about a teacher (presumably who wasn't on MP1) who has to take on 2 other jobs to make ends meet.
I'm sure I'll get flamed, but ECTs start on 28k. I and other people live on way less than that, I don't understand why an experienced teacher of a few years should need 2 extra jobs?

These are the graphs that matter here.

That looks scary.

I have no clue what teachers get paid but it's very clear that their working conditions are dreadful. I am not convinced that even doubling the salary would help much with recruitment and retention when the working conditions are so challenging. I personally wouldn't do it for 100k. My DS gets into trouble a lot in school and I'm absolutely mortified that teachers have to tolerate his behaviour.

20 years ago I had a PGCE place, even then it was quite obviously not worth it financing, once I looked at the starting teaching salary, plus the additional loans I’d need to cover the course I’d have been earning less even then than I was in the office admin role I was doing at the time.

If other people chose not to figure that out and go into that career anyway then more fool them imo.

Teaching salaries have been sinking for decades, it was a pretty simple decision not to follow that path personally.

I dread to think what state education would be in if all teachers had made that judgement! But maybe better than it is now, if everyone had just refused to work in those conditions for that pay

Presumably they were happy with that level of income and didn't know the Conservatives would in effect cut their pay year on year. What you chose to do for more money isn't actually relevant, some people wanted a career as a teacher even if they could have earned more but they didn't know, and neither did you, that the pay would be cut.

Some savvy people (I know some) didn't pay fees for their PGCE and earned money while doing it. Maybe you could have researched that?

Oh absolutely, it’s a really sad state of affairs!! I can see people coming straight out of uni not realising, I’d worked for a couple of years but was only in my early 20s at the time so the exact age they need to be recruiting.

Some savvy people (I know some) didn't pay fees for their PGCE and earned money while doing it. Maybe you could have researched that?

I did, there was a scheme where I believe you were sponsored by a school, but overall the starting salary was still lower than the admin role I was doing back then and I wasn’t in a position to have any other financial support.

I’m not suggesting anyone’s wrong for wanting to be a teacher and believing they should earn a decent wage for doing so, but having worked for a couple of years it wasn’t financially viable on any level to do it.

really not very savvy at all, as these schemes normally require you to sign up for a minimum number of years, or you are hit with your full training fees, which are massive, ( much bigger than PAYG training) and realistically unpayable - this has lead to many desperate young people trapped for 2 or 3 years in situations they hate, and cant handle, much to the detriment of education, and to the teacher's mental health.

On one hand, forcing people to remain in the classroom like this has been one way that some schools have survived and been able to keep children in, but a pretty desperate and ultimately unproductive way

No the people I know who did the course were paid while training as they were working in a school, not all in the same school obviously, they did a day a week in uni, no fees to pay no contract to sign up for anything, they could resign during the year or immediately afterwards, I believe they did have drop outs. At the end of the year when they qualified they got jobs some in the school where they trained and some elsewhere.

So yes it was savvy, earned money for the year, qualified without paying a penny. Not sure what wouldn't be savvy about that if you want to be a teacher.

what schemes are this then?

I’d say about right. My sister earns £44k with no management responsibilities of note and in a Primary. With the holidays and pension it’s a decent package.

I think non-teaching managers of MATs are basically parasites doing a job that used to be done by the LEA for less. I cannot understand how they justify they huge salaries.

However, with the odd exception of course, headteachers are worth every penny and many are paid far too little compared to the responsibility they hold.

How long has she been in teaching? That is at the top of band for a teacher with no additional responsibilities.

If she's primary she'll have subject responsibilities and as she's UPS they'll definitely be getting their money's worth...

I think a lot of teachers over value what they think they'd be paid in other jobs. Teachers pay can be very good and often when teachers leave it's for a pay cut or they find it hard to leave because can't get an equivalent salary elsewhere. I saw a TA job advertised recently for £14k a year, that's astonishingly low.

I don't think necessarily they are underpaid IF they only worked a set number of hours. However, education at the moment is in crisis. Not enough money is given to education in particular special education. As a result, more children are in mainstream as there are no special education places. Also, for children with needs who can cope with mainstram, there is no funding to give them proper provision so the system is failing these children. Money is such an issue that schools are struggling even to afford gluesticks. This coupled with the increasing workload and lack of support by some parents to instil positive behaviours is what I feel is causing teachers to be leaving - not pay.

If a maths graduate had decided instead of having a teaching career, they had joined an accountancy firm, pension actuary or investment bank, they would easily be earning significantly more than in teaching. They are so many alternative options for graduates instead of teaching.

Teachers at my private school had free yoga classes. A friend of line teachers complimentary yoga to local private school teachers. I don't see why more state school teachers don't choose to jump ship.

Teachers are jumping ship? That's rather the problem?

Because the demands of private schools are even worse than state schools.

Endless open evenings, Saturdays, lots of trips, parents who think they own you as they pay for you. Lots won’t pay into the teachers pension scheme,

I am way, way more interested in raising the wages of teaching assistants than teachers. Teaching assistants are taking on more and more of the tasks of teachers - in my area HLTAs are actively replacing teachers in jobs, and ordinary TAs are taking groups and planning. For less than they’d earn in shops, and much much less than they would earn as bus drivers or train drivers. Many are a damn sight more qualified and capable than teachers too. But hey, they’re mostly older women, so they don’t matter do they.

Im afraid I’ve met far too many poor teachers who are primarily there by virtue of family links and are more interested in maintaining their social dominion and bullying others than actually educating. I was also openly told, when I trained myself, that I needed to socialise to get higher marks and jobs.

Yes, I think they are underpaid.

I am low paid. I earn £24k as an administrator in the private sector. I didn't go to college or university. I work from home 2 days a week. My job is easy. I work my set hours and then log off, I do not think about work or do anything work related outside of my 9-5 working hours.

A teacher went to university, studied, having to deal with lots of children every day, think of fun and creative ways to make lessons interesting, does lots of unpaid work outside school hours? Only starts on £4k more than I do?

I think I should be paid more, teachers certainly should be paid more. I do not solely survive on £24k I get Universal Credit top ups.

Lol, the idea that someone thinks a teacher has time to look at mumsnet during their working day! It's the job where that is the least likely to happen. You're lucky to eat, drink and wee during the day.

Obviously TAs should be paid much more, that's not in question. Many teachers were older women in the past too. They're not now, because retention is so awful. They've already been driven out. Improving conditions may mean they could actually stay and become older women in the role...