Do you think teachers are paid too little?

[Looooop]

I've just read an article about a teacher (presumably who wasn't on MP1) who has to take on 2 other jobs to make ends meet.
I'm sure I'll get flamed, but ECTs start on 28k. I and other people live on way less than that, I don't understand why an experienced teacher of a few years should need 2 extra jobs?

I am not sure they are paid a low wage for what the job was back in the day. I’m not a teacher and not spoken to any personally about the strikes but I wonder if part of it is that the job is different now. Children are so badly behaved that there should be danger money attached to the salary. Of course it’s not all children and I am generalising but often the badly behaved children are not tackled because the parents are pretty scary!

then there is def a funding problem so I imagine with a reduction in support staff and TA’s the job has become bigger.

I have seen how a one for all schooling model also means teachers have children in classes which doesn’t always work, often through no fault of the child or staff, and again this increases the difficulty of the job. We have enormous schools which we need to enable the funding model to work but then the staff pay for the fact that these types of schools don’t work for everyone and are increasingly hard to manage in terms of behaviour.

Ah gotcha, your education suffered because of the actions of other children and the failure of maybe a dozen or so teachers when you were at school. Now you hate all teachers everywhere due to your own bad experience. Explains a lot tbh.

Maybe you should use some of your initiative and fill in those gaps yourself. Hell, you could even spend some of that time learning a little bit about the subjects / topics you comment on before, well, commenting.

Astonishing really then that so many of them seem to find the time to be commenting on MN threads in the middle of the day...

It depends.

My ex's DD is on about 30k. She has a 3rd in Psychology and did her PGC because she couldn't find another job that paid more. No I don't think she's underpaid. If she sticks at it for a couple of years, gets some experience and shows a bit of commitment, then she'll be worth the money.

My dsis, 1st in Chemistry, then B.Ed, then M.Ed, plus 28 years experience, yes, she was underpaid for the effort she put in. Now retired and in her 70s but still doing supply for the local primary in an emergency.

I don't hate teachers at all. I just get pissed off with their constant whinging and moaning and insistent that they face unique challenges and pressures at work, as if pretty much everyone else doesn't face the same things in one way or another.

Ever heard of part time?

I am currently not working, due to return shortly after a break partly forced by a move and by caring responsibilities, but also for mental health reasons caused by my job.

Starting salary is fairly good. Main scale teacher, after several years who chooses not to move into leadership, etc - not so great when compared with other professions which require a degree and post grad qualifications, and ongoing CPD. We need main scale class based teachers. Not everyone wants to move into leadership.

Regardless of what individuals feel - teaching recruitment and retention is in crisis. This is very much the case in certain subjects at secondary, but is also affecting primary (previously seen as more able to attract teachers and keep them) these days. Why is this? Pay and conditions are clearly an issue.

And re: strikes

Pay hasn't risen inline with inflation, let alone additional rises, for years.
And now the Government aren't even funding most pay increases - so pay has to come out of school existing budgets.

Is it fair that our children will have less money for resources such as books and stationery because the Government won't fund schools accordingly?

That doesn't sound right. Is he in a union? (If not he should join one yesterday) He should check with them. I'm not sure what the rules are re pay if he's at an Academy, but I would've thought they couldn't pay him less...

Exactly. I didn’t leave teaching due to the pay. That’s ok. Not great if you’re not in the upper range, but it’s ok. I couldn’t go to the toilet whenever I wanted. Morning breaks were non existent. I barely had time to eat lunch as I had to work through lunch. You have to stay late for parents’ evenings and school events. There’s not enough support for children who are neglected/abused or SEN.

There is so much scrutiny so you can’t teach how you’d like to teach. You’re watched like a hawk and not trusted. It’s all a tick box exercise to make Ofsted happy.

Some of these comments have actually made me laugh out loud because of the absurdity of them.

Could most of you more sensible and balanced posters imagine having the arrogance to tell a nurse, solicitor etc that you know the ins and outs of their job because you once went to the hospital or to court?

As the one about primary school teachers having it easy 😂good one!!

Some of these are just so blatant. Try toning it down a bit so you can be taken seriously. Then we might believe you.

The BBC interviewed a primary teacher yesterday who'd had 14 kids start not toilet trained last September. Over the months, she and her TA had managed to toilet train all but 5.

That should not be in the job description!

To be honest I would be surprised where a teacher would find time for even 1 extra job. Most of the complaints that I read from teachers are the long hours and what's expected of them outside actual classroom teaching

Annabel : That would vary widely depending on their individual qualifications, personality, interests, location, long-term life goals - I can think of many and I'm sure you could too.

Have you named any yet?
And clarified why they won't be attracted to teaching too?

Public sector pay should be based on private sector pay.

This might actually solve the problem tbh. If teachers' pay and school funding had kept pace with wage inflation over the last 10 years or so we wouldn't be seeing strikes now.

The benchmark shouldn't be whether you can manage to live on a teacher's salary! The question is whether it pays well enough to attract enough good teachers and retain them. In many subjects and parts of the country, I don't think it does. There is a signficiant shortage in many subjects. Smart graduates have many more attractive opportunities. It shouldn't just be a job for the small number who are willing to do it despite the poor pay and conditions, or for those who can't find anything else.

Academies can pay what they like. That’s one of the “freedoms”.

Mostly they pay to scale.

If the job was 9-3 only 39 weeks of the year with impeccable behaviour and realistic expectations (as many of the general public seem to believe) then it would 100% be enough pay. However, for what they deal with in terms of bureaucracy, behaviour, constant policy changes, expected to work all the hours under the sun, getting abuse from parents etc etc - no it is not. Put simply, the pay doesn’t match the expectations and responsibility and many other professions simply wouldn’t stand for it. That’s before you even consider the decrease in real terms since 2009. And for what it’s worth, I would definitely agree nurses, paramedics and junior doctors should be paid significantly more for the fact that they regularly saving lives and dealing with incredible stress - let’s not pit groups against each other!

I don't think they are underpaid. I also don't think their importance of a primary school teacher is comparable to a nurse as PP said

And who will ensure teach those future nurses the building blocks of their education? Who will ensure nurses, doctors, solicitors, etc can read and write? Understand what numbers are and how they work and relate to one another? Who will begin to address the core skills needed to learn science, humanities and the arts?

If primary school teaching is so lacking in importance, clearly those key skills and building blocks are also not important.

Good luck with getting future nurses and doctors without the primary school teachers!

As to whether teachers, TAs and schools in general should receive better pay conditions and funding - well, depends how much you value education.

I am a teacher and whilst the salary as a headline figure is good when measured against hours worked and workload/pressure it is not a good wage. So for the work I do, no I do not think I am paid enough. However, this has long been the case and hasn’t overly bothered me as I enjoyed my job.
I will say this though, I am currently working on my exit strategy from the career and the salary isn’t even in my top 5 reasons why! And the reason I am on here and not teaching/marking etc is because I am on maternity leave before someone comes for me!

Does this include similar pensions?

Not sure how much you’d save and be able to afford if it matched other private elements

I have a good degree and a Masters and post graduate qualifications.
I have been teaching for 15 years and have some leadership responsibilities.
I get paid 35k.
If you think that's ok you are nuts.
My 24 year old out earns me.
There will literally be no teachers shortly,
The attitude of some people on here is another reason there is a crisis.

Many private pensions are now better than the new state pensions. Local authority pensions are payable at state retirement age.

And pensions are increasingly irrelevant to teachers who know they cannot possibly meet the mental and physical demands of the job until anywhere near retirement age.

Depends where you live. What might be a great wage in Middlesbrough will not be in Surrey. I think regional weighted pay would be a good idea for some public sector jobs for this reason.