Do you think teachers are paid too little?

[Looooop]

I've just read an article about a teacher (presumably who wasn't on MP1) who has to take on 2 other jobs to make ends meet.
I'm sure I'll get flamed, but ECTs start on 28k. I and other people live on way less than that, I don't understand why an experienced teacher of a few years should need 2 extra jobs?

I don't think teachers specifically are underpaid. They earn a decent amount compared to many people. The problem is wages have stagnated since the Brown years. People are about 40% worse off now in real terms. We all need a pay rise, the minimum wage should start at about 35K.

So I don't support teachers, rail workers or nurses in their strikes. If they were striking for better pay for everybody they'd get more support.

The earn similar to a nurse but without shift work, responsibility but have massive holidays, lots of moaning for no reason, it’s not like they haven’t got the time to have a 2nd or 3rd job.

You do realise the primary years are the foundation for future learning and if they aren't done well we'd have far less nurses, doctors etc as people just wouldn't have the qualifications to do jobs such as that. Please don't diminish the importance of primary teachers.

Haha can tell you've never been a teacher. Even the thought of a second job while teaching 🤣

ECTs do start on 28k. Look on the TES website.
Thanks for all the replies.

^This.
The kind of race to the bottom views in the OP are the reason we don't make any progress - people have swallowed the Tory lies and are in a weird "shaft us some more, we are all scum" mentality where one poor wage is compared with an even poorer one as proof we are all serfs who deserve poverty because we are not Sir Bufton Tufton.

I’m more concerned about the fact that teachers are expected to take on so much work that it’s impossible to do it all and remain sane and healthy, no matter what pay is being offered. And the fact that far too few are being trained, so you’re guaranteed to be taking on more than your own workload in one way or another as non-specialist cover supervisors need a lot of help.

No, I don't think so. I think in some cases, it is more working conditions that are the issue and I do believe that should be addressed. It is also a fallacy that all teachers, in every school across the country are overworked and put upon.

"f they were striking for better pay for everybody they'd get more support."
What a stupid idea - apart from the fact that it would almost certainly be illegal "secondary action" as defined by the anti-strike anti-union laws we have, how the fuck could Teachers strike for a pay rise for everyone?

Depends on how highly you value your children’s education? Do you want the best to become teachers? Do you want them taught by experts in the subject or are you ok with A level chemistry students taught by someone who didn’t get a science A level?

I don‘t think it‘s necessarily about pay per se, but it seems like there are fewer TAs (certainly in secondary) than are needed, so all the extra work is done by teachers. The government has consistently underfunded not only schools generally but in particular SEN, meaning there are fewer SEN places and those children who should really be in an SEN school are in mainstream. This has a detrimental effect on both the kids with SEN, the kids who are almost managing but just need a little bit of extra support (but can‘t access it because the kids with more pressing needs get the assistance) as well as the other kids.

I say this as a parent of both a child with SEN (who has finally got a place in an SEN school after a long battle with the LA) and very able kids with no SEN, but who have kids in their classes who really should be somewhere that can offer them more support.

Teachers (who often don‘t have the necessary skills) are having to try and cater to all these kids, differentiate work more than would be typical and ensure that every child, regardless of their ability is coping. I know that they would have to do that anyway to a certain extent, but in reality it is more than should be typical and is just exacerbated by the lack of funding and the lack of practical support in the classroom.
It also makes it a very difficult environment to work in, coupled with kids who (backed by their parents) believe they can get away with anything. On of my DCs is in what is reported to be a really good school, and even in her classes there are kids throwing things at teachers, making them cry, constantly talking back and knowing full well there‘s little the teacher can do.

I know a few teachers who go home and then spend a lot of their evening working. In a lot of jobs, you can just switch off when you get home, but I think for a lot of teachers, this isn‘t the case.

So for me, it‘s not so much about the amount of money they bring home, it‘s more the disparity between what they are expected to do and put up with in the work environment, compared to what the government thinks they are worth. But it will backfire soon enough, many teachers are leaving the profession for their own well-being (and I don‘t blame them), but soon they will struggle to recruit enough new teachers unless they can redress working conditions, SEN needs and funding.

I think teachers need a decent pay increase as do TA’s. as many other services have experienced cuts/closures schools are taking responsibility for more and more
I think what is expected of TA’s now is so much more than it used to be
Also the government needs to backfill the amount of each school budget taken out to fund the last pay increase for teachers.

I don't think they are underpaid. I also don't think their importance of a primary school teacher is comparable to a nurse as PP said

How would you exist in a world where nurses couldn’t read? Or calculate doses? Or understand basic biology. Or anything really.

This. Our school is advertising for TAs and the responsibility for the wage is frankly terrifying. And a good couple of pounds less than you earn as a barista locally (not dissing baristas in any way!)

Teachers are also paid too little as a PP said they can't all move to cheaper areas! So while £28k is a good salary in some places it really isn't enough to live on in others

In real terms, teachers' salaries have fallen (and they weren't exactly huge to begin with). This, coupled with the fact that the job is one of huge importance and responsibility, leads me to conclude that they aren't paid enough. It is a bloody hard job . . . And no, I'm not a teacher!

I am an ex teacher. It's all the other rubbish that goes with it. Teaching is no longer the main part of the job. Counselling students, behaviour experts, dealing with rude parents, sen specialists as not enough sen schools, constant scrutiny, unnecessary admin, students doing assignments every 5 minutes that then need marking. Sacrificing time with own families by weekends spent planning.
Education is surviving on current teachers doing hours of unpaid overtime and spending their own money on resources. Before I left I worked out that for all the hours I did, I'd have been better paid working for a supermarket and that was factoring in doing no work over the holidays.
I would keep pay the same if all the other stuff was removed, otherwise a serious increase is needed

Yes I think they are underpaid (as indeed are TAs) for the job they do and the stress that comes with it. I also think it's unfair to make the comparison with nurses although I don't think it's a coincidence that both are viewed as 'female' professions and both have been underpaid for so long.

Yes, of course they are.
Without teachers, without education, where would this country be. People are earning far more not getting a degree and not making the same contribution to the future generations. So of course they should earn more. They are responsible for our young, their influence in society is immense. My daughters teachers were working around the clock during lockdown because not only were they in school teaching the most vulnerable students, they went home and gave the students at home their support as well. It’s the little things teachers do, like message on weekends to remind the kids to go out and look up at the night sky because the planets are aligning, recommending good books, taking an interest in the children’s personal interests. It’s utterly mind blowing how much a teacher has an impact on our lives - I still remember mine. To think someone even asks the question, do they deserve better. Yes they do, they 100% do.

Does that mean I am loving the strike action. No. It’s a real problem for so many parents. We nearly lost our income over it, which would have meant possibly losing our home because of the COL crisis. It’s a dire, dire time and everyone is struggling so much. We got through covid, now we are trying to get through this. My kids have lost so much education compared to other generations it’s unreal. But I blame the government, full stop, end of story.

Doesn't really matter if i think the salary is too low, there's a recruitment crisis in schools. Not enough people staying in teaching, or training to become teachers, because there are far easier jobs that pay more. On that basis the gov need to do something radical quickly, either pay more or make conditions much more appealing. Otherwise there will be less and less teachers.

No. Teachers definitely are not paid enough - just because some people manage on less is irrelevant. You don't waste all that money on education and training to scrape by. That's not really an enticing prospect. If your goal in life is just to have enough to get by I don't know why you would choose a job that requires considerable personal investment in education and training, loads of stress, and constant scrutiny. It should be regarded as one of the most important professions in the country and paid accordingly. I don't see how the recruitment crisis will ever be resolved when the people we need can earn more doing something less taxing.

Not in all cases n subjects. My husband started as an ECT in a very challenging secondary school. He is on less than £28k. I don't think teachers could be ever be paid enough to be honest. What they are expected to deal with is often horrific.

On one particularly stressful day, I worked out how much I was earning for the hours I was doing, and worked out that I was on less than minimum wage. I’m not a teacher anymore!

They are paid too little for their role.
The talk of teachers going to foodbanks and being really poor is bullshit.

I was a teacher for 20+ years. I now work for the local authority in a related role. I am now paid far less. Teaching, especially secondary teaching , is not badly paid.

I don’t think that the pay is that bad, but the conditions are.