Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Do you think teachers are paid too little?

260 replies

Looooop · 03/05/2023 09:46

I've just read an article about a teacher (presumably who wasn't on MP1) who has to take on 2 other jobs to make ends meet.
I'm sure I'll get flamed, but ECTs start on 28k. I and other people live on way less than that, I don't understand why an experienced teacher of a few years should need 2 extra jobs?

OP posts:
BusyMum47 · 05/05/2023 07:00

JuneShitfield · 03/05/2023 09:58

Education and healthcare are both massively underfunded and underinvested in, from pretty much every angle. They are the two most pressing systematic/societal structures in need of investment just now IMO.

Be wary of anyone trying to pitch teachers and nurses against each other online; it's a well-used diversionary tactic to obfuscate and get people lobbing pointless rocks at each other.

28k is one of those figures that can sound like quite a lot when thrown around out of context.

And sure, some people manage fine on 28k, and there are many people on a lot less.

Doesn't mean that teachers' pay isn't shit, though. And 28k really doesn't go very far in certain places — London and the south east, around Edinburgh, certain parts of Manchester and Birmingham, etc etc. All those places need teachers.

100% this!⬆️

BUT don't even get me started on the salary of TAs - that's where the real crime is! And no-one seems to care or even be aware - it's always all about the Teachers.

I'm a very experienced TA, take advantage of every possible qualification/training etc I can, I solo teach a class of 30 several times p.wk, plan & run my own intervention/tutoring sessions for small groups & 1:1, contribute to all assessments/grading across the year group, often speak to parents, provide daily mental health support to children, physically restrain the disregulated ones...the list is endless.

The parents have no idea how much we do & how we inevitably know their children far better than the actual teachers.

Yet even though I'm at the top of my pay band & often work additional hours, my net monthly income is rarely over £1200.

It's downright offensive & as a direct result, I'm currently looking to leave a job I love & am bloody good at. As are dozens of other brilliant TAs I know of.

I'm honestly glad that my kids are at the tail end of their school journeys now. I fear for the future of education in this country.

Firecarrier · 05/05/2023 07:02

The pay in FE is way lower....

MumofSpud · 05/05/2023 07:21

DIYandEatCake · 03/05/2023 10:03

I think the pay of teaching assistants is far more shocking. Nowhere near enough to live on, and for pretty much minimum wage they’re often teaching whole classes to cover teacher absence/PPA time, or working with the kids who have the greatest needs and behavioural challenges. It’s shameful (like care worker wages… don’t get me started on those either).

Absolutely agree!
In my school they are paid shockingly for an 8-4 day and are expected to have a degree / and to become subject specialists

clopper · 05/05/2023 07:27

Most FE teachers that I know earn the same or less as an ECT with very little room for progression. They are often dealing with pupils who are disaffected from school and who can be be difficult to re engage with learning. I’m always surprised that the public are unaware of how little FE teachers are paid.

DrHousecuredme · 05/05/2023 07:31

I've taught all my working life and think that the salary is fine, not huge but enough to live on in a simple way. I'll ever go hungry but equally I can never afford the luxuries that my peers take for granted EG new furniture/cars every 3 years.
Nice holidays abroad more than once a year.
I'd be happy enough with this if the job wasn't quite so all consuming, with people feeling entitled to ring or message asking for a piece of work at 9.30pm or at 3pm on a Sunday.

DrHousecuredme · 05/05/2023 07:33

Sorry hadn't finished...
I find the salary of TAs a worry though. They are paid a pittance and mostly worth their weight in gold. It's no wonder there's such a desperate shortage of them now.

I'd sooner this was tackled first and teacher salaries another time.

noblegiraffe · 05/05/2023 07:35

I'd sooner this was tackled first and teacher salaries another time.

Teaching assistants didn't meet the threshold for striking and teachers did.

Both need tackling. We have a huge shortage of teachers and recruiting TAs.

Teachers can't strike for TAs to get a pay rise, but we are at least insisting that our pay rise doesn't result in TAs being made redundant like last year.

Nimbostratus100 · 05/05/2023 08:25

roarfeckingroarr · 04/05/2023 20:43

Teachers at my private school had free yoga classes. A friend of line teachers complimentary yoga to local private school teachers. I don't see why more state school teachers don't choose to jump ship.

because pay and conditions can be worse in private schools! we also have free exercise and sport in state, but few people have time to attend, whereas in private, it can be made effectively compulsory

Nimbostratus100 · 05/05/2023 08:27

DrHousecuredme · 05/05/2023 07:33

Sorry hadn't finished...
I find the salary of TAs a worry though. They are paid a pittance and mostly worth their weight in gold. It's no wonder there's such a desperate shortage of them now.

I'd sooner this was tackled first and teacher salaries another time.

why? I have done both. I was paid more per hour as a TA than as a teacher

Nimbostratus100 · 05/05/2023 08:30

RosaGallica · 05/05/2023 06:30

I am way, way more interested in raising the wages of teaching assistants than teachers. Teaching assistants are taking on more and more of the tasks of teachers - in my area HLTAs are actively replacing teachers in jobs, and ordinary TAs are taking groups and planning. For less than they’d earn in shops, and much much less than they would earn as bus drivers or train drivers. Many are a damn sight more qualified and capable than teachers too. But hey, they’re mostly older women, so they don’t matter do they.

Im afraid I’ve met far too many poor teachers who are primarily there by virtue of family links and are more interested in maintaining their social dominion and bullying others than actually educating. I was also openly told, when I trained myself, that I needed to socialise to get higher marks and jobs.

many TAs are ex teachers, taking on TA jobs for a better life

OrangeBlossomTime · 05/05/2023 08:33

casingchars · 03/05/2023 10:04

Our education system is falling down around us and they keep going as best they can with limited resources and ever increasing demands. And they are vilified for it. I support the strikes.

This.
I hate the strikes.
But I support them!
✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽

Nimbostratus100 · 05/05/2023 08:36

sorry, I have lost that post about schools not being able to afford gluesticks

These are the problems with school gluesticks

  1. We cant afford them
  2. Children vandalise them, vandalise WITH them, waste them and steal them
  3. Teachers are then required to spend time investigating damage done by gluesticks, loss of glusticks, damage done to gluesticks.
  4. Parents, when contacted, get all indignant and shoulder-chippy becasue they see it as a trivial issue and think we are picking on their child for nothing.

End result - money and time wasted, and no activities requiring glue possible, and parents stroppy with us.

Here is the solution to gluesticks

Each child is required to be in possession of a clean, usable gluestick, provided from home, and will be put in detention if they fail to produce it when required.

This has been the universal solution around local schools, and is the only thing that works

This may sound trivial, but it is not the only item where the cost has to be passed on to the parents - incredibly, one local school is pushing waste disposal onto homes now too, to cut down cost to schools, students are required to take their own waste home and dispose of it there - not an issue in many cases, but a problem when many students live in the same block and share communal bins

DannyZukosSmile · 05/05/2023 08:49

How on earth can anybody take 'two other jobs' on to make ends meet? Especially teachers, who claim to be soooo busy and overworked with their ONE job. It's obviously only several hours a week these 'two other jobs.' Many people do extra work to support the household/family/kids. So teachers are no different or special or any more 'deserving.'

Always makes me laugh when people say 'my mom was amazing. She worked three jobs to keep us kids....' Er yeah, probably seven hours each job.

Yeah, I suppose that when teachers start, they could be on £28K and then maybe after a year, a 7.5% increment, and then another 7.5% incremental a year after that, (depending on their performance!) And then just the cost of living rise thereafter.. But everybody struggles with money, you know? And not everybody have a chance to go to university. I think teachers need to get a lot more experienced and be much better teachers, before they deserve the right to demand a lot more money. So I thing YABU.

Nimbostratus100 · 05/05/2023 09:11

DannyZukosSmile · 05/05/2023 08:49

How on earth can anybody take 'two other jobs' on to make ends meet? Especially teachers, who claim to be soooo busy and overworked with their ONE job. It's obviously only several hours a week these 'two other jobs.' Many people do extra work to support the household/family/kids. So teachers are no different or special or any more 'deserving.'

Always makes me laugh when people say 'my mom was amazing. She worked three jobs to keep us kids....' Er yeah, probably seven hours each job.

Yeah, I suppose that when teachers start, they could be on £28K and then maybe after a year, a 7.5% increment, and then another 7.5% incremental a year after that, (depending on their performance!) And then just the cost of living rise thereafter.. But everybody struggles with money, you know? And not everybody have a chance to go to university. I think teachers need to get a lot more experienced and be much better teachers, before they deserve the right to demand a lot more money. So I thing YABU.

it doesn't depend on performance in any way though. It depends of politics, subjective judgements, and compliance with ofsted generated crap, all of which has a detrimental effect on education.

Sartre · 05/05/2023 09:13

Yep they are. I’m a uni lecturer and I don’t get paid enough either but will probably get told I’m a greedy bastard. Teachers (across all levels) are educating the next generation so deserve far more than 28-48k.

Swishhh · 05/05/2023 09:16

My friend is an unqualified teacher but will be qualified in four terms time. She earns 25k per year and work’s absolutely ridiculous hours. It’s been a good insight to how hard teachers work, she probably gets two thirds of the holidays to herself. She had a week long course this Easter.
I can’t help compare her week to my DC who earn between 25 and 29k and who work their contracted hours and have very little stress.

Spendonsend · 05/05/2023 09:18

The teacher i know that do additional jobs do tutoring, babysitting with the company sitters, run holiday clubs and do things like sell/represent educational brands. Some also have quite big social media followings which bring in income. I know one working in a bar on saturdays. A couple other do things relevant to their specialism like being in a wedding quartet and playing at weddings, coaching a sport professionally etc..

So obviously they aren't full time jobs in addition to their full time job but i think all the 3 jobs sentiment is that one full time graduate professional job on its own is not sufficient.

RosaGallica · 05/05/2023 16:53

noblegiraffe · 05/05/2023 07:35

I'd sooner this was tackled first and teacher salaries another time.

Teaching assistants didn't meet the threshold for striking and teachers did.

Both need tackling. We have a huge shortage of teachers and recruiting TAs.

Teachers can't strike for TAs to get a pay rise, but we are at least insisting that our pay rise doesn't result in TAs being made redundant like last year.

TeachingAssistants dont have a Union. Teachers do, and they do not give a shit about TAs. It is bloody hard to start a union nowadays. All that matters in the U.K. is social pressure and power games among elites, not actual work done or any sense of justice or fairness.

Sirzy · 05/05/2023 16:55

Teaching assistants do have unions. I know one union is about to ballot their school support staff again and I would imagine others will. Last time round NEU support staff where just under the threshold of people having voted to be able to strike

cantkeepawayforever · 05/05/2023 16:58

TAs absolutely do have unions that they can join. It’s not as ‘expected’ as teachers joining a union - which all teachers are advised to as a form of professional insurance- but there are several options for TAs, including NEU, Unison, the GMB. No need to start a new one.

AskMeMore · 05/05/2023 17:00

@Spendonsend They are choosing to have a lifestyle beyond what a teachers salary will pay for. That is fine, but they do not need other jobs. Teachers earn about the average or above the average wage. I know a lot of teachers and most are reasonably well off.

mamaduckbone · 05/05/2023 17:45

thunderandsunshine01 · 03/05/2023 09:55

I don't think they are underpaid. I also don't think their importance of a primary school teacher is comparable to a nurse as PP said.

Not sure where you think the next generation of nurses, doctors and other 'important' people would come from without good teachers.

OrwellianTimes · 05/05/2023 18:23

I think the current salaries would have been appropriate 10 years ago, not now. But it’s true of the vast majority of jobs to be honest.

The teachers I know do a flipping fantastic job.

Pegsandsunshine · 05/05/2023 19:03

The pay is ok to begin with, but then you reach a ceertain level and stall forever, unless you take up a huge amount of responsibility while in other sectors you dont need to become a company director to have a salary increase every year. The other problem is workload, it's an OK salary but not when you consider how much people actually work for it.