Do you think teachers are paid too little?

[Looooop]

I've just read an article about a teacher (presumably who wasn't on MP1) who has to take on 2 other jobs to make ends meet.
I'm sure I'll get flamed, but ECTs start on 28k. I and other people live on way less than that, I don't understand why an experienced teacher of a few years should need 2 extra jobs?

Depends.

Location, childcare, rent/mortgage, debt etc.

They are paid a lot less (in real terms, i.e. allowing for inflation) than they were a few years ago - more so than other professions who are also striking, such as nurses. So I guess it depends if you think they were overpaid before?

Yes they are paid too little.

and the school budgets are too low.

the combination of the above is leading to massive issues for all children in education which is only going to get worse.

It's quite difficult at the moment to live on a single salary in an expensive area. And they can't all move to cheaper areas as then there'd be no teachers in the Home Counties.

Or maybe they work in FE. Starting salary £22k max you can earn as a classroom teacher £32k. I’ve just had a 1% pay rise which takes me into the next pension band so it’s gross £12 a month.

Just like nurses they are not well paid in terms of the importance of the job they do.

I don't think they are underpaid. I also don't think their importance of a primary school teacher is comparable to a nurse as PP said.

Maybe teachers should be paid more but the salary is completely transparent so everyone knows it before they train.

I had a place to do a PGCE back in the day, but I worked out that taking a year to do it, with loans, to earn less than what I was currently on wasn’t worth it so I didn’t do it.

So I accept teachers should be paid more, but if it’s a surprise to anyone once they’ve already trained then they should’ve done some research beforehand.

Education and healthcare are both massively underfunded and underinvested in, from pretty much every angle. They are the two most pressing systematic/societal structures in need of investment just now IMO.

Be wary of anyone trying to pitch teachers and nurses against each other online; it's a well-used diversionary tactic to obfuscate and get people lobbing pointless rocks at each other.

28k is one of those figures that can sound like quite a lot when thrown around out of context.

And sure, some people manage fine on 28k, and there are many people on a lot less.

Doesn't mean that teachers' pay isn't shit, though. And 28k really doesn't go very far in certain places — London and the south east, around Edinburgh, certain parts of Manchester and Birmingham, etc etc. All those places need teachers.

Well would you leave a job if you thought the salary, conditions and pension made it worth your while?

So why do you suppose their are so many teachers leaving the profession?

It's not brain science is it.

Maybe teachers should be paid more but the salary is completely transparent so everyone knows it before they train.

What if you trained before there were 13 years of real terms pay cuts?

Also, given that pay scales are transparent, it should therefore be a concern that the government is only projected to recruit 47% of the needed secondary teacher trainees for September. Maybe the pay isn’t enough?

I think the pay of teaching assistants is far more shocking. Nowhere near enough to live on, and for pretty much minimum wage they’re often teaching whole classes to cover teacher absence/PPA time, or working with the kids who have the greatest needs and behavioural challenges. It’s shameful (like care worker wages… don’t get me started on those either).

This would be reasonable IF teaching pay had kept in line with what it was worth when that person trained, or in line with inflation, or in line with pay for jobs that were comparable at the time of training.

As none of those things have happened, it is unfair to say that a teacher today should have realised years ago, when they made the decision to train, that their pay would be massively eroded and thus they should have made decisions accordingly.

Our education system is falling down around us and they keep going as best they can with limited resources and ever increasing demands. And they are vilified for it. I support the strikes.

But that’s the problem. Not enough people are training to be teachers.

I don't think it's too low in reality, but it's not representative of the workload and therefore perhaps it's not that the salary is too low but they're expected to do much for that money, over and above. Schools need better funding and more staff!

No, teachers aren’t paid enough, but, as has been said times without number, it’s all the other issues, like massive workload, Ofsted not fit for purpose, limited and vanishing resources, too few staff etc etc.

It was my career, but it wouldn’t be if I was starting out now.

From what I understand the pay a few years ago was really good but they get very few pay rises so it now feels like a lot less in real terms. The teachers I know seem to accept that as they get good holiday and pension packages etc. However what they are frustrated with is all the targets they have to meet and the extra work they are expected to absorb within their roles. One of my friends is a primary school teacher but many of her class can't speak English so she has no chance of meeting targets and it makes her day to day very difficult. Funding for school supplies also keeps getting cut so it's hard for the ones I know to so much creative learning. There also seems to be big differences in pay for primary and secondary school teachers, headteachers seem to be on a decent salary with I think also causes some frustration.

Teaching is a really important job, they shape our children. Yes oarents do that too, but I still remember the good teachers I had. The ones that built the kids up, made learning fun while trying to get them all engaged.

Yes they are underpaid. I think its more than that though, its resources and generally being treated like shit that makes it a difficult job too

Teaching is a hard job so I would say yes.

Other people may earn less, but that's not really relevant to the question of whether teachers are paid too little. Plenty of people earn much more for less demanding jobs.

You also need to consider the qualifications etc that are required to become a teacher

But that’s the problem. Not enough people are training to be teachers.

To be fair, that’s only part of the problem. Teachers already in the classroom leaving in their droves, with huge shortages in specific subjects, is another part.

Not to mention that even of the paltry percentage of target for teachers to train who apply for the courses, many don’t finish the course and of those who do, many never work as teachers.

My sons walked out of university and were earning more a week later than I ever have in teaching, even after 30 years, so yes, they are gobsmacked now, that I have accepted so little for so long. So am I when I compare myself to them! But I have other jobs too, or I wouldnt have been able to manage mortgage and child care.

Being on the upper pay scale doesn't really help. I never wanted to go up, and begged not to, but was made to anyway. Loads of extra work and responsibility, and no financial benefit - children lost bursaries worth more than my pay rise, for a start, and immediately lost job security, as schools normal look at expensive teachers when they need to cut back.

I had to leave that job as they were culling expensive teachers, and took a pay cut in another school. Very much happier, as there is less admin, less record keeping, and less hours, on main scale, and of course job is much more secure - this year the most expensive teacher in my department has resigned, having seen which way the wind is blowing, and knowing she is going to be made more and more uncomfortable until she does. I know that wont be me. |If I leave, it will be my choice

I have worked as a TA and I have worked as a teacher, and I was paid more per hour as a TA. One of my friends is a SENCO, and has said to me he needs more teachers in his department and fewer TAs, because he can get more hours out of one teacher than 2 TAs

I'm an ex teacher. I don't necessarily think teachers are underpaid but are massively overworked. Personally, I don't think that can be compensated. Changes are needed to workload.

However, I've seen many experienced teachers at the top of the pay scale managed out because they are too expensive. When they get a job at another school they can drop several spots down the pay scale so are no longer well paid for their experience and skillset. They can lose thousands. It happens more and more often especially in larger MATs.

ECTs don't start on 28k.