Do you think teachers are paid too little?

[Looooop]

I've just read an article about a teacher (presumably who wasn't on MP1) who has to take on 2 other jobs to make ends meet.
I'm sure I'll get flamed, but ECTs start on 28k. I and other people live on way less than that, I don't understand why an experienced teacher of a few years should need 2 extra jobs?

Teachers and support staff are paid shockingly poorly for the services they provide. Looking at comments on forums and local news sites shows me that generally speaking the general public do not have the faintest idea how difficult these roles are, and how much is expected of them. I 100% support the strikes. At a nation we need to value our teachers and support staff (without support staff, schools would fall apart but they barely get a mention!)

And TAs whose pay is rarely talked about are being totally exploited for their level of pay.

I left teaching because of the pay!
i was teaching in FE on 0.8 (the other 0.2 was unpaid, as it was time to do an (admittedly) paid for course in ESOL, which was classed as professional development (you have to demonstrate pro dev constantly). The course, I felt, was lip service. My existing, recognised and higher level course already covered the content.

I walked out with just over £1,100 a month! The pension is hefty and has 2 deductions (one for SERPS). Contrary to popular opinion my holidays were normal (23 days) if I wanted any half term or summer off, I used my own holidays.

Planning lessons, printing resources, getting on top of the exam content and marking scheme and knowing the scheme of work and how it fit into the curriculum was also done (in part) in my own time. I acknowledge if you reach the same subject for many years (and are lucky that the exam board/ exam content barely changes) then the planning on my side would be reduced a lot.

pay-rises were blocked using things that you could not control, e.g high student absence (demographically and the fact these were the first 16-18 year olds made to retake their English GCSEs after failing so were not hugely engaged in the idea to start with was the issue). It was deemed the lessons (that the teacher planned) must be at fault for not engaging them enough!

I had an undergraduate and post graduate loan to pay - both necessary to have my job! And my youngest still needed wrap around care and I had travel costs. I have gone back to cleaning it pays comparatively much more.

Teaching (without a huge time served or extra responsibilities) IS underpaid and carries long hours and lots of extra responsibilities (safeguarding/respect etc etc) that cause lots of stress.

However, at uni, i did a primary school placement, and I must say the 2 aren’t comparative in my eyes.

Primary teaching is;

• much easier

• less stressful,
• requires less subject knowledge
• can be planned with just an overview of a subject, as for instance if you’re teaching shapes you know the content back to front and doesn’t require a post grad degree to also pay for.

So I’m less convinced that, it is underpaid as I feel it’s almost on a par with childcare setting responsibilities personally.

FE is paid terribly. I did some FE work and left as the pay was so atrocious. I am paid more now in a pretty easy and basic job.

We need to be thinking about paying salaries that are good enough to attract and keep the best teachers to educate our children. And also fighting for schools to be properly maintained and resourced.
I genuinely think that if more people had a true idea of what goes on in schools they would be shocked.

Bloody hell primary teaching isn’t “much easier”.

Primary teachers are miracle workers and god knows how they put up with the ridiculous marking expectations and children who will end up out of mainstream before they get to secondary but not before they’ve been through several years of primary.

Yes. Massive work load, expected to be everything to everyone during school hours so need a really broad skill set, and real term pay decreases.

It makes me want to scream that on mumsnet, of all places, people don't see the value of a decently funded education system for the future of our kids.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Honestly I think teachers pay is fine. I do however think the conditions they are expected to work under (hours, stress, constant micromeddling by government, inadequate funding of schools) are intolerable. Still I think it would be better to improve conditions than up pay people enough that they are willing to tolerate them.

I think it would be reasonable if conditions were better. As they're not teachers are having to fill in gaps as they're short staffed, work with too little resources and support staff, carry out duties beyond their remit because things like CAHMs have been cut to the bone, not have time at work to plan so it bleeds into evenings/weekends/holidays which makes the hourly pay crap, children who need additional support aren't getting it and the stress of trying to include these children without neglecting others. Some subjects as well just can't compete pay wise, why any comp Sci grad would be a teacher for example is very confusing.

I think it’s more than just teachers pay that’s the issue. It’s what is expected of them as well.

Safeguarding, ofsted hoops, targets - parents! providing extra curricular after school activities. Parents evening, feedback, reporting - that’s all before actual being in the classroom teaching.

We often read on here what impact is taking my child out for five days - there isn’t an understanding of the planning that’s in place for teaching - that week could be an important week to learn a topic. The parent then expects the teacher to provide additional resources so that child can catch up.

Pay them fairly, let’s keep the good teachers teaching and support them. Let’s get schools funding up.

Im not a teacher but appreciate what is being provided to my child - I want the best for them.

It’s not a race to the bottom. Yes lots of people earn less than teachers. Maybe they should be paid more too? Most public sector workers’ pay hasn’t kept up with inflation over many years.

Sadly views like this are why the government feels free to award pay rises to teachers that have to be funded through the existing school budget.
Why school budgets are squeezed.
Why the teachers are striking.
What has to happen before we do something about it.

Six of my family are or have been teachers.

Paid too little at lower grades in particular, though I think this is not the only issue. Parents taking no responsibility for their children or even accepting their child has not behaved appropriately are one significant factor.

Lol I bet you are one of those parents that think a teacher has been promoted when they move from KS1 to KS2.

I would be really interested to see a comparison between pay (and pay progression) between teachers in different countries, benchmarked against other graduate jobs in those countries. (A comparison of actual hours worked would be excellent too, but I suspect that’s not available!)

What I an wondering us whether there is any link between the ‘value a society places on education’ - crudely measured by teacher pay throughout their career - and the perceived quality of that educational system on international benchmatks?

If teachers were paid enough, there'd be no problem with recruitment and retention.

Maybe less problems with recruitment but the vary majority of the issue is retention due to workload and working conditions.

@Sleepeazie I am a primary teacher with a PhD and first degree from a very highly respected institution. My job is different from a teacher in secondary, sixth form, oand HE, but is not ‘easier’ because I teach younger children.

Take planning - the NC is very broad brush for primary and there are no exam content specifications BUT schools are required to work out a full progressive curriculum for every year from these statements, in terms of what every child must learn, be able to do, and remember. That needs to be consistent across classes in each year group and progressive between year groups. As a result, the vast majority of primaries have to create full written long, medium and short term plans and resources - and then adapt them for the 1 in 4 or more children per class with different levels of SEN as well as making sure the most able make progress.

Equally marking - every book for the next lesson in the same subject is the normal policy, so between 3 and 6 full sets of books each day, depending on how lessons fall.

SEN paperwork and pastoral support us also typically done by class teachers, there being no-one else.

Teaching us not easier because children are younger- I have the deepest respect for my EYFS colleagues, who teach 30 children of all abilities to read, year in and year out. Just because I can read well doesn’t mean I can teach reading well!

Perhaps (I say that because I've lost touch with teachers' pay). I think the issue is more to do with workload. The expectations of what teachers should fit into the working day and the hugely increased range of responsibilites, not to mention red-tape/insane levels of recording etc have become totally unsustainable.

I think, in European countries, teachers are allowed to teach - without trying to be social workers, counsellors, child psychiatrists, etc to the extent they are here. Or this used to be the case - but correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not denying that these roles may be necessary in some schools but they shouldn't be loaded on to teachers.

Yes, teachers are paid too little.

If they had a decent salary and conditions then they wouldn't have problems attracting people to the profession. The contempt the current govt shows towards state education is extremely damaging. Not. Only for teachers but for generations of school leavers to come.

Not only teachers but all ancillary support and services should be better funded. Education is critical for cohesive, productive, healthy societies. I don't think the Tories realise just how damaging their policies are - they are socially divisive and will ultimately make the UK less competitive- as well as create a whole generation of people unable to think critical salt or hold their government to account.

Coffee, and others on this thread, I think you are right, to a great extent. I took a very significant pay cut when I entered teaching, but at that point it was a job that was possible, in terms of workload, expectations, some level of work life balance etc.

While I do think pay and pay progression needs to be looked at - and the issue of school budgets to match - returning to the workload and classroom conditions of 10, even 5 years ago would assist retention at least.

The bands are set countrywide afaik so an ECT in County Durham could afford to buy a 3-bed semi on their starting salary whereas an ECT in parts of the Home Counties could only buy a one-bedroom flat if they took out a joint mortgage with a partner. So a teacher could live like a king in C.Durham, a pauper in the SE.

Public sector pay should be based on private sector pay. You can't give public sector workers pay rises and expect the private sector workers who pay for it all to just suck it up. If teachers don't like their jobs that much, they should all quit, and go and work at McDonalds or something. But they won't, they'll just whinge and moan about how important they are, how much harder than everyone else they work, and how special they are. They aren't special. They do a job, for an amount of money. Just like everyone else who works. It's up to them to make it work or do something else to earn a living.

You clearly don't know ex-teachers.