I’m “entitled” for actually being a woman?

[ThreeblackCats]

I was a bit pissed to be referred to as a “cis” female and I stood my ground.

I’m not cis, I’m not a terf, I’m a woman, born a woman, lived a woman for 60 years and Michael called me “entitled” so, am I wrong for defending woman from this BS?

I’m sick of being relegated to third place after men and then trans men.

Please explain how your gender matches your sex?

Because google is unable to give you a clear definition of gender regards to sex. It clearly states it's socially constructed.

So how do you socially construct to you biological sex? Because I can't find any definition of what o should be doing to be a socially constructed women which allows others to describe me as "cis".

@Brefugee was being sarcastic. Some TRAs claim that misgendering a trans person is 'literal violence'. @Brefugee was turning that ridiculousness back on them.

Sorry, very new to this discussion -

Is the idea that the terms cis woman and trans woman are both used, or do trans woman use 'woman' and we use 'cis woman'?

Everyone uses woman. On the very rare occasion a distinction is needed, cis- or transwoman are used as appropriate.

Cis is not needed. Full stop. Woman, and transwoman, are just fine.

"Eeveryone" does not do that, no. Only people who subscribe to the belief that womanhood is a type of thinking that is found in either sex.

If one finds that belief wrong and offensive, and does not accept being redefined as a person with a "womanny mind" to "match" her female body, trans women are not "just another type of woman" in the first place so the need to make a distinction doesn't arise.

And yes, consent. Important that. Rather odd you consider it so given that you're suggesting that same-sex attracted women have heterosexual sex with a trans woman (we know that the vast majority are penis havers)
Some do want to though.
If you don't want to, then don't.
I just don't get why some people care so much about what others do with their consenting sex life.
If you're a lesbian, then you still are regardless of what others are or aren't doing.

Just like I'm not any less straight just because some people are in a relationship with trans men right now.

The term cisman is used often but nowhere near as often as ciswoman. I think it mainly due to most discussions being about trans woman.

You shouldnt have to prefix the norm. Nobody has an issue with the term transwoman . Except that's not good enough for some tranwoman they would rather just be called woman .

I truly believe most transwoman just want to live a life , with their head down and get on with it.

But theres an extremely loud minority that dont want to do that .

You’re not giving up anything by allowing someone else to live their life. You don’t have to become a ciswoman either - it’s just a term used to differentiate when it’s needed and transwomen are not becoming the default women. I don’t think wanting your identity represented is a fetish either - but the people obsessed with the labels and terminology are rarely transwomen in my experience anyway.

Changing what words mean doesn't change individuals' reality, no.

It can, however, make it harder to name and describe that reality. And in the case of a reality that is historically marginalised and disempowered, for which I'm sure you are thankful that straight is not, losing the words to name ones reality is an act of political disempowerment and social negatation.

Being attracted to people of either sex with a different gender presentational you is valid. Being attracted to only the opposite sex as yourself is valid. There is no reason whatsoever these two things need to have the same name and it lessens our acceptance and understanding of people's real lives and real attractions, and creates needless hurt and conflict, to insist they must.

Who in earth would be attracted to and interested in having sex with someone they knowdoesn't want to have sex with them?

Well quite, there is a word for that isn't there?

And while we are on the subject of consent why are you @CremeEggQueen constantly ignoring the fact that this has been imposed on women without consent. Women haven't consented to be a sub category of our own sex class. Women, mostly, haven't consented to males in our single sex spaces. Female prisoners certainly haven't consented to being incarcerated with males who might rape them.

So if consent is so important to you, why does the informed consent of women matter so little? It only makes sense if you recognise that you know who the women are. It's clear that male privilege is at play here. Crystal clear.

I'd be really insulted by "cis" too.

But I wouldn't get into an argument with a randomer online. Life's too short.

You’re not giving up anything by allowing someone else to live their life.

If only. But your version of allowing someone else to live their life has led to -

-Male Rapists in women's prisons

-Males competing and sometimes winning in women's sports (effectively making women's categories redundant)

-Males winning women of the year awards

-Males heading up rape crisis centre telling women who don't want to be in contact with any male to reframe her trauma.

-Lesbians being called bigoted for refusing males in their dating pool.

-Girls not having access to single sex toilets in school

-Girl Guiding and other female only organisations being mix sexed

-Disabled women not being able to request single sex intimate care without fear of being accused of 'bigotry'.

So what you really mean is that males should live exactly as they want and women should ignore the fact that this impinges on our rights and freedoms.

No Thank You.

in my circles I and many women I know use it to describe ourselves . I especially use it when discussing my own lived experience of discrimination and how that is different from the lived experience of discrimination other women have - such as women of colour, LGBTQ+ , working class women etc

You might want to stop doing that. Using the descriptor "cis woman" to distinguish yourself from minority ethnic women, LGB women and working class women is placing yourself as the default woman - straight, white, middle class. You're no more a standard female than I am as a black woman, or any other female from a minority or disadvantaged background is.

You also might also find it beneficial to expand your "circles".

You’re not giving up anything by allowing someone else to live their life. You don’t have to become a ciswoman either - it’s just a term used to differentiate when it’s needed and transwomen are not becoming the default women
Exactly

I’ve never come across the idea that ”cis” is an insult until I read the MN guidelines . in my circles I and many women I know use it to describe ourselves

I literally have never come across it in RL, only online like here.

I phrased my original post poorly, and am sorry that offended people. I should have said I use it as as part of a longer phrase like “straight cisgendered middle class white woman” to say I am aware I have many types of privilege which means my experience of discrimination differs from that of women who experience multiple layers of discrimination. This is of course exactly because I conform more closely to what some narrow minded and sexist/racist/classist people might consider a “default” or “standard” woman. I agree with you that such thinking is offensive and discriminatory. I’m sorry my original post caused such offence.

You've missed the point of the entire thread.

Swansandcustard · Yesterday 23:43

Everything going on in the world and THIS is what consumes you?

Well, unless one is a 2-D cartoon type of person, it's perfectly possible to be concerned about more than one thing, at any given time.

Also, this thread's subject is the deleterious effects of tranw on women, their own spaces, own society, privacy and dignity.

If you'd rather talk about something else, there is a plethora of threads on a multitude of different subjects.

So you use it to denote privilege, this is exactly why people think it is so manipulative. females have been an oppressed class for centuries and now you’ve been handed the language to say that men who say they are us are worse off but if you don’t want to use that language you must be petty or hateful.

Totally agree with you. It annoys & offends me to see women labelled as Cis or Terf, it's unnecessary. It is the rabid transwomen (men) and their supporters (men) who are just being disruptive to annoy women. I seriously doubt that a large proportion of transwomen are actually transvestites, with no intention of genital surgery focusing on cosmetic surgery instead. Eddie Izzard is a prime example of this. Enjoys wearing women's clothing and make up, but still has his 'boy mode'. The man is a fool. Genuine transwomen just want to live their lives, as do transmen (they keep quiet at all times, it seems).

If a lesbian wants to have sex with someone with a penis they're not a lesbian, they're bisexual.

Surely sex is not assigned at birth, it’s observed. Saying it’s assigned makes it sound like a decision the midwife made.