I’m “entitled” for actually being a woman?

[ThreeblackCats]

I was a bit pissed to be referred to as a “cis” female and I stood my ground.

I’m not cis, I’m not a terf, I’m a woman, born a woman, lived a woman for 60 years and Michael called me “entitled” so, am I wrong for defending woman from this BS?

I’m sick of being relegated to third place after men and then trans men.

1. The application of it to gender is at most a handful of decades old, and only been pushed into "common" use in the last 10 years or so via the deliberate, conscious effort of genderist activists. In this usage it is both newfangled and artificial.

2. It is used to suppport the appropriation of the word "women" by men who wish to use this sleight of hand to assert the dishonest claim that, since they have redefined the word woman to include them, this somehow gives them a moral claim on the resources, rights and spaces set up for a completely different set of people who happen to use the same word even thought "woman" meant something totally different when these things were created than the meaning these men now claim it has.

3. When you adopt the constructions of "trans" and "cis woman" you are accepting that womanhood is a state of mind - that "women" think in a way which is different to "men". Many of us think this idea of "woman's minds" and "men's minds" is just the old sexist, regressive bullshit that has been used to restrict female potential and agency forever. We reject utterly being labelled "cis" because we reject the assertion that our minds are limited to genderised norms.

Everything going on in the world and THIS is what consumes you? You must live a lovely privileged life if this is all you have to worry about.

Honestly listen to yourself. Why do you care so much what’s in people’s pants? If you personally don’t want to be called cis that’s fine but then you need to respect transwomen that want to be called women because you don’t agree with the differentiation. Cis- is literally just for that. Differentiation. No different to homosexual / heterosexual. Etymology is an ever changing science, get with the times or stay where you are but the world is thankfully becoming a more diverse and tolerant place whether you like it or not.

but then you need to respect transwomen that want to be called women because you don’t agree with the differentiation

Sorry but no. No woman has to 'respect' a man who is imposing himself on women in this way.

Etymology is an ever changing science, get with the times or stay where you are but the world is thankfully becoming a more diverse and tolerant place whether you like it or not.

At what point, and please do be specific, does a man who claims to be a woman become an adult human female?

Please be VERY specific about this?

At what point does he cease to be a male and how?

Because is science is changing, that's cool, we just need to understand the specifics.

I don't especially care what is in people's pants, why are you bringing pants into it?

I care that the historic oppression and disempowerment of female people by male has shaped our culture and society. I believe that because of that history of disempowerment , female people must now have a moral right to maintain their own name, history, voice and resources to respond to, mitigate and eventually overcome that historic disadvantage so we may all, both sexes, live empowered lives and meet our potential as human beings.

A gender-noncoforming man who celebrates finding a new way to be a man is a brave and glorious thing. I stand beside anyone, man or woman, who looks beyond the gender roles our society has created to say "no, a woman or man is not a certain type of personality, or a set of behaviours, or a mental aptitude, or a sexual role - a woman is any personality in a female body, and a man is any personality in a male body".

But a gender-nonconforming man who thinks this makes him not a man at all but a woman reduces and limits both himself and women. He is imposing on all women a definition that he wants them to have for his own needs, for what part of himself he sees reflected in them, rather than seeing them for who they are and can be, entire people in their own right.

I do not stand with anyone who thinks the difference between men and women is in how they think, nor with anyone who would silence female voices or deny female people the right to their own history, female-only spaces and resources, or their own political voice.

‘A cisgender person has a gender identity that matches their sex assigned at birth.’ cadburyegg

I have never identified with gender stereotypes. I am me. A person made up of a combination of my innate personality and temperament and life experiences that shape me.

My biological sex is part of who I am. Typical gender stereotypes of either male or female are not a part of who I am. The gender stereotypes just never made a good fit for me.

I have a right to my own identity as much as anyone else.

These labels such as ‘cis’ seek to create an identity that I don’t identify with. And I very much don’t want to have my identity erased by someone who just wants to categorise me rather than get to know me.

I don’t think these labels are healthy. I think these labels detract from everyone’s right to their own identity. And so I get where you are coming from @ThreeblackCats.

But unfortunately, when it comes to people so immersed in their own personal opinions that they are completely resistant to giving any objective thought to other perspectives, it’s a losing battle.

On the other hand, you never know, one day something you said might sink in and later on in life as they grow and mature it might make a difference.

When I was young I was adamant that I was right about this or that. I argued against the person who gave a well reasoned argument against me. Then a few years later I came to see the very valid point that they were making and realised they were right.

FWIW their argument was expressed with patience and not with anger or any hint of being contemptuous of my error.

Perhaps that is why it made a difference. It was planted like a seed and it grew.

it is if you don't want a fucking ridiculous label attached to you

Hear, hear, @PSNonsense

'Literal violence'?
😆😆😆😆😆😆😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Find a dictionary and look up the word literal
And then use it appropriately

CIS is an unnecessary label because we already have names for biological females = women, and biological males = men. It’s superfluous.

A cisgender person has a gender identity that matches their sex assigned at birth

The only people whose gender was (often wrongly) assigned at birth are intersex people; who are affected by a rare and complex chromosomal condition.

No-one else's sex has ever been or needs to be assigned at birth. As another poster encapsulation it; it is determined at conception, observed during pregnancy and confirmed at birth.

Why do women have to respect the choices and rights of transwomen, give up the very word woman and become ciswomen, but trans women do not have to respect the right of women to be, well, women?

I am a default woman. I am not going to be a ciswoman so that a transwoman can be the default woman.

I am happy to share the 'female space' with people who genuinely feel misgendered, and are not acting out some fetish. Most of the people in this situation just want to quietly get on with their lives. I am not happy to vacate the 'female space' to facilitate the choice of a few men.

I used to think that cis was a slur and didnt like being called it when I first saw it on here, but but I am a woman, why do I need another bit to it?
Knowing next to nothing about trans people went and followed some of them, got their opinions too, their experiences etc
Realised its just a way of describing someone who identifies with their sex and gender all matching up for want of a better expression.
Now it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Forgot to say, sometimes a break from the internet for a bit does you good (genuinely)

but trans women do not have to respect the right of women to be, well, women?
But... I'm not any less of a woman just because people who are trans exist and are recognised.

It's good that you researched. To get a balanced view however you would need to research why so many women are deeply offended by the term

you need to respect transwomen that want to be called women because youdon’t agree with the differentiation. Cis- is literally just for that. Differentiation

Trans woman and woman are enough of a differentiation.

Everyone knows what a woman is and what a trans woman is and what the difference between the two is. No need for the addition of Cis at all, it provides no greater clarity.

I have.

Woman adult human female

Are people aware we currently have lesbians suffering verbal abuse? Called homophobes because they won't have sex with women who have penises.

That there is currently a real push to include male born 'women' in the definition of women in law. Meaning all a male person has to do is say they are a woman to gain access to women rights and spaces. Sexism is close to being legal.

Woman who have not looked into this really really should. Your equality and safety is at risk

Lol, I see we've hit playground debate already 😁

I'm going to steal this one too!

You can have sex with who you like.
Theres that little thing called consent that comes into play regardless.
Have sex with who you like.
You wouldn't say "no 'cos I don't shag black people" (I hope!) So why would you say " no because I don't shag trans people?"
You don't need to give a reason.
Consent

Good to see the "trans women is a category of women just like black women" appear on here. Again. And the racism (black women are not women, but like men who self ID as women) is topped off with classism too (working class women are not women, they're like men who self ID as women).

The racism inherent in this comparison has been repeatedly pointed out and explained, over years, always giving the benefit of the doubt: they've said something unintentionally racist, they don't mean to be racist.

Similar applies to the term c*s, with women explaining why it's both unnecessary and an insult.

And yet here we are. Once more.

It's very, very telling that the only group in this whole discussion who have to be listened to, who get to choose how they're referred to, at all times, are the white blokes who self-ID as women.

As a (working class) woman who cares about women and isn't racist: fuck off with comparing black women to men! Just stop it.

MNHQ re post deletion: I'm very specifically referring to "men who self-ID" here, because there's a legal distinction between a trans woman with a GRC and, well, others.

Racism and lesbophobia in one post. Well done.

And yes, consent. Important that. Rather odd you consider it so given that you're suggesting that same-sex attracted women have heterosexual sex with a trans woman (we know that the vast majority are penis havers).

What I really don't get is why you think trans women would want homosexual women to unwillingly have sex with them. You're really not painting trans women in a very good light here. Who in earth would be attracted to and interested in having sex with someone they know doesn't want to have sex with them?

it doesn't make me less of a woman. But I am told that I am apparently now a ciswoman so that a transwoman can be a woman instead of me. So it does affect me. Because someone who is biologically a man get to call themself a woman through choice, and I am expected to step aside to respect their feelings. But my feelings are not respected.