Bank of mum and dad

[squidwid]

To think it's very hard to have it all, house, kids without the help of bank of mum and dad nowadays?

This is how most people think about it IME. It's horrible for those whose parents can't help set them up, and for those whose parents are so dumb they'd rather pay 40% of family wealth to HMRC than do appropriate tax planning and pass family assets on to the next generation when they are young and need them and preserve them for generations after that. Sadly there seem to be many families that gained wealth in the last generation or two who squander it in this way, which those with "old money" never do: they always consider it a family asset to be passed down when needed and as efficiently as possible.

You might want to look at inflation-adjusted salaries versus house prices in the last 70 years. And in particular that the UK is alone in all developed countries in having had no real terms salary increases in 15 years, and the fact that economists so not expect us to even get back to 2019 levels by 2028. So that will be 25 years of NO real terms salary rises. Unprecedented in 300 years of recorded economic history. But of course, all because the generation living through that for their entire working lives is not as virtuous as you, or something? Go learn some economics, then come back when you have any useful insights with any factual basis.

We gifted our ds1 10 grand for a house deposit. Will hope to do the same with the younger 3. Her mum and dad gifted 2 grand. It's what we could all afford.

It's bloody ridiculous now. We brought our first house for 30.000! 4 bed detatched nice area. We had a deposit of £500 on a credit card and 100% mortgage.

Times were hard as in the 90s when mortgage rates jumped up from 10 to 15 % IN ONE FUCKING DAY!!

But the youngsters now it's bloody unfair. House prices are mad and mortgages need to be far more long term and manageable

@thebaneofmylifeisacat

Times were hard as in the 90s when mortgage rates jumped up from 10 to 15 % IN ONE FUCKING DAY!!

Only for one day. They were reduced back to 10% the day after!

@Heedless same.

I find it easier to some extent not to have any perspective of help from parents or in-laws (and in fact have to help them out on occasion). We knew that we had to crack on and do it ourselves, and we did.
People who grew up more comfortably seem to have a sense of entitlement about what it their due that really holds them back.

It’s never occurred to me what life would be like if my parent helped me out with money. My husband and I have built our lives independently and it has been difficult, and although I earn decently I don’t think I’d have managed to save enough alone to buy a home.

We hope to gift our own children reasonably when they’re older, because it is incredibly difficult otherwise.

Exactly. Hardly the same as 25 years of zero salary growth. 🙄

And 10 or even 15% of fuck all is a lot less than 5% of a shitload.

But never mind the maths, eh? Blame the avocado eating, coffee drinking, lazy people. 🤦🏻‍♀️ Some people could really have done with learning a little more maths perhaps, not that I agree with anything else that comes out of Sunak's mouth.

I know this gets pushback, but I do agree to some extent.

I'm 34, and we bought at 28. Moved around for jobs, second hand cars after a few years of commuting by train, sim only phone contracts and cheap phones. One or two "proper" nights out a month, other get togethers done on the cheap at each other's houses.

I didn't have a totally stingy and joyless time in my twenties, but I saw my friends - all on similar or lower incomes - frankly pissing money up the wall with constant shopping, iPhones, Sky TV, lease cars etc

It wasn't a big mystery to me why I had such better savings.

Didn't mean anything was just an observation.
Logically speaking I don't think 'Londoners' would move out. After all they can live rent free in the capital if at home, and plenty are wealthy.
But a lot of people living in London didn't grow up there anyway

Yes, there is affordable housing down the whole of the west coast of Scotland and similar in many similar cheaper areas of the uk. It might in many cases be characterless boxes, the weather is crap but there is a strong sense of community. My nieces 4 bed, terraced box cost around £100k. No idea what other nieces flat cost but just checked get area and they come in around £190k (which would buy my 3 bed detached which is 30 min drive to Glasgow off peak!)

My parents are not originally from this area but took the option available to everyone to move to where they could afford to raise a family and it is our home now. I couldnt afford many places in the UK so I don't expect to buy there.

Just depends what “have it all” means. Usually it’s keeping up with other people and giving off the impression you’ve got loads of money. There must be a lot of people seriously loaded with debt to live the lives they do (as in you know the jobs they have so earnings aren’t that hard to guess) but everyone thinks they just “have it all”. We have zero financial or childcare help and it does impact your lifestyle but we own both cars, have a nice house (or at I least I like it!) and no debt. Sure, I could have an Audi instead of my Peugeot but I’d be in debt.

Yes, my first flat was in north Cumbria and cost bobbins.

Take home - £1050
2 bed flat rent - £350 inc water rates
Savings - £200
Spends - £200

I didn't always spend the full remaining £300 on bills either - I could walk to work and the shops.

Some places are still incredibly cheap to live, even relatively now. And technically I could have been sharing, or had a smaller flat.

My friend's first house was 90k - 5 bed in the North East.

There's still loads of places where housing is cheap.

It's not just your area.
I know waitresses and warehouse workera in NW who bought within last 6 years including recently. One of the girls boight by herself on waitress salary 4 years ago (would be harder now obviously). One couple of friends lived in sharedhouse with their baby for a year to save up deposit (different city to me).
You can still score 3 bed here for 100k. Not glam area, but livable. There are some for 70k but that might be step too far because they will need LOADS to refurbish.

ExLA houses are great. Not sure why so many people turn their noses up on them. I have one. 3 bed, garden, calm area (under 150k)

But smaller new builds here go for double or triple the price of these former LA houses😱

I am very lucky. I would not have the life I have without all the help I have had.

One of the reasons people want to go to bigger first properties now is because as a cohort, first time buyers are older than they used to be. It's fine buying a pokey one bed flat when you're 27. Less so when you're 34 and know you'll need to crack on soon if you want a family.

There are people in their thirties, sometimes with a small child, who have bought one bedroom flats and are happy about it. Their flat has increased in value, they are paying less on mortgage than they previously paid in rent and they realistically plan to move in a couple of years or less.

Interesting that you left out the word pokey there. If I'd meant one bed flat per se I'd have said that: after all, some one bed flats are very spacious, have their own gardens, may be quite luxurious. Naturally, these are liable to be more expensive than a pokey one bed flat in the same area, and as such first time buyers are more likely to be in the latter.

Fully agree with this. There are too many who want everything instantly. Phone contracts, lease cars, big house. My husband is saving at the min for a big purchase that he could easily get a loan for and have it now. But neither of us were brought up like that so it can wait. Phones can be sim only, cars can be second hand, house with 3 bedrooms and a garden with fake grass and grey Instagram look can wait.

I guess it depends on why you want something.

1. For most young people a lease car often works out cheaper than buying a car, maintaining it, and insuring it. If you are self-employed a leasehold car can offset some of your tax. When you consider the costs of running a second hand car it’s rarely cheaper.
2. Phone contracts if picked carefully can work out cheaper than if you buy a phone directly. You just need to shop around.
3. A big house is an investment. 3/4/5 bed houses do increase in value faster than smaller houses /bigger houses - so I can understand why people work so damned hard to own one. Once you’re on the property ladder you definitely have more financial options in the UK.
4. The OU is no longer the most cost effective option to get an online degree and in many non-accredited subjects it’s value is diminishing. In fact mostnbricks and mortar universities deliver better value for online studies now.

Increase in flat values don't actually help as the houses you want to buy will also be more expensive. Usually with a bigger increase than the flat. Unless you save up/earn more then buying it with a view to moving in under 2 years is very unrealistic.

Bear in mind also that moving is expensive and you'll have used up your first time buyer privilege. So have to pay stamp duty.

Of course the other side of the coin is, if your mortgage is much cheaper than rent this will enable you to do the hard save and move....

I have run secondhand cars for the past 11 years.

The FULL cost - petrol, purchase, insurance, repairs, tax, aa membership etc - is £55/month. Be super generous and add a £25/month "my car broke down and I needed to get a taxi instead fund" (this has happened maybe three times in 11 years), and it's still £80/month.

And my current car still has years left in it, so that average will keep going down. It's my third car.

I do wish people wouldn't keep perpetuating the idea that secondhand cars aren't cheaper than lease cars. I think it scares young people off from dealing with repairs etc in an adult way, selling them the dream that for £200/month (not including petrol), you don't need to worry.

Yes, that is what people do. They also progress in their careers and start to earn more. The flat is a decent enough start on the ladder and if it is fairly modern, will be easier to maintain than a house; some of the maintenance comes out of service charge so the occupants can get on with their lives without worrying too much about that sort of thing.

So yeah, I think most people have help

So because your parents helped you, you think most people have help. . No they don’t, they really don’t.

If you are single and living in London or near about areas and relying on one income it's incredibly difficult. My aunt back in the 90's was able to rent a flat on a one person fairly low income. Now she wouldn't have a chance.
People say 'Well go and rent a bedroom out in someone's house' but even that is ridiculous in terms of cost and means that you can't save in order to rent your own place or buy. It won't get any easier anytime soon either. Especially factoring in the cost of living, food prices, energy costs etc.
It's absurd to say that things have not become a hell of a lot harder. I know a lot of my female friends would probably still be at home if it wasn't for their high earning partners.