To not forgive her this time?

[GuineaPigPosie]

Hi,

I work in an early years setting and this afternoon, one of my colleagues who is twice my age (50s), raised her voice at me, swore at me, told me I was a lazy, a joke, and pathetic, in front of four children and several members of staff. All because I asked for a another colleague to grab me some bits and pieces and give me a hand whilst we were BOTH ON OUR LUNCH BREAKS whilst I was clearing up a child after he had a poo accident all over the bathroom floor. Managers heard her shouting at me to "shut up" from the other side of the building. A parent also heard.

I tried to explain my side, I asked her not to shout, I said there were children watching, she carried on going. I did not raise my voice. One of the children who had witnessed (2 years old) spent a large part of the afternoon crying but when asked, wasn't sure why. Colleague who shouted left the building and went home early. Managers got my side of the tale and then reviewed CCTV over the course of a few hours, got colleague's side of the story and determined I did nothing wrong. As far as I know nothing happens to her, she hasn't had a warning, we were told to move on.

This isn't the first time this has happened. This is probably the fourth or fifth time in less than a year she has done this sort of thing. She has sworn at me and shouted at me in front of several children, then stormed off. It's often over trivial things such as me telling her a bike is unsafe without a pedal. I'm autistic and often don't realise when maybe my opinion isn't wanted, but the safety of the children always come first, regardless of what staff think. Managers said she takes it out on me because she likes me and knows I'll still always be there for her.

and it's true, I tell myself "not this time" but I always move forward. AIBU to not forgive her? She hurt me, and there's no talk of an apology. Managers clearly don't expect her to say sorry, and she has made no moves to apologise. They've told me she'll be anxious all weekend because of what she's done. Well maybe she shouldn't have done it!!! I have no doubt there are children going home tonight telling their parents that X yelled at GuineaPigPosie at nursery today. We're supposed to be a safe space for our children and she has taken that away from them. I'm so annoyed that I keep allowing myself to relax and forgive her. Managers want us to have an informal chat just to clear the air on Tuesday, but truthfully I am not interested in speaking to her.

FWIW, I have no intentions of staying in my current workplace come September. If it weren't for my current key children I would be gone. But I need to see them off to school. And then I'm gone. If it wasn't for the children I adore, today would have had me writing my notice to hand in on Tuesday.

Thank you for reading.

AIBU to not forgive her this time, and to tell her that if it happens again, I'll be filing a grievance?

If a parent heard, I guarantee that this will be passed onto other parents. The kids will be talking about it too. Raise your grievance because I can see this all coming to a head on Monday. Parents and children talk, everyone will know and management will need to step in.

Perhaps next time her so-called 'menopausal rage' will cause the poor lamb to throw something at, or even hit, a "lazy" child if you, her preferred target, is out of the room at the time this rage strikes her. Will your managers rush to assure the child that it's ok because they are the chosen child and her actions show just how much the madwoman prefers them to every other child and other such minimising, saccharine, empty, patronising bollocks?

She needs consequences for her actions, management need to manage and you certainly don't deserve to be treated like that. By any of them.

She continues to act like this because she’s allowed to. The manager is doing nothing and you are forgiving her.

She’s taking full advantage of you being so lovely.

I can’t think of anywhere that I have worked (including early years setting) that would accept this from an employee.

Grievance, all the way. If a colleague shouted and swore at me in front of others (or alone), I’d be straight there with a formal complaint.

OP it seems the advice here is fairly consistent! Everyone supports you.
Management sound very incompetent and possibly afraid of this woman, which is ridiculous. If they are dismissing you and not taking the bullying seriously (it IS bullying imo) then definitely play the other card - her behaviour was damaging to the children and created an unsafe environment. I work in childcare but not in UK and that single act would be in breach of number of industry standards/ regulations. They may be in breach by allowing this to continue

File an official grievance and ask them to retain the CCTV as proof.

Your colleague's behaviour is gross misconduct. You are the right to work in an environment where you are not shouted out in this way and your employer as a duty of care.

Also the children and parents should not be exposed to this behaviour.

She has done this over and over again and your workplace has failed to address it so make a complaint that HR will have to investigate.

The people who are trying to excuse this as ''menopausal rage'' are actually doing a huge disservice to older women. Menopause is never an excuse for this type of unprofessional behaviour.

Managers say she takes it out on me because she likes me and knows I will always be there for her.

I think she shouts at you because she has sensed a weakness in your ability to stand up for yourself so is picking the low hanging fruit to vent her nastiness on. It is what bullies do.

She’s bullying you, your managers are allowing it to happen.
be brave, file that grievance, hold your head high.
she deserves no compassion from you. She is a nasty vile bully that needs to learn her lesson and fast. She’ll cross the wrong person one day.
and if that was done in front of my baby I’d also be complaining as a parent.

Join a union. Do it right now. Voice Community are good. They may not be able to assist with previous issues but if it happens again they will support you in whatever needs to be done.

File a grievance today, for the children's sake if not for yours. Clearly this person has no business working in early years.

If my child was in that childcare setting and I found out that this had happened (on more than one occasion!), I would be removing my child unless the person shouting and swearing in front of the children was removed.
This is an unacceptable environment for the children and the other staff (including you). Your managers are failing to do their job.

Nobody should be behaving like this at any type of work but especially when little children are present. I would not want my DC in a place where they are effectively trapped with a shouting, sweary woman.

You don't need to talk to the parents, there is CCTV showing exactly how she behaved. File a grievance. I would call her behaviour bullying and that it is creating a hostile work environment for you.

It is easier for your management to have their little talks and 'draw a line under' things than take action against her. You need to make them realize that it is easier for them to take disciplinary action against your colleague together with getting her some help (if necessary) rather than face losing a good employee and possibly dealing with a lawsuit for constructive dismissal.

Surely that behaviour in front of children is instant dismissal? I hope the parents put in a formal complaint to Ofsted. I would if my child witnessed that.

Please take it as far as you can and make sure she doesn’t return to the school. Not only is she bullying and intimidating you but frightening children when they are suppose to feel safe at school.

Managers said she takes it out on me because she likes me and knows I'll still always be there for her.
That is a pile of steaming bullshit from management.
It's what we say to stressed parents about their very small children.
You are not this woman's parent, or emotional punchbag.
"Always be there for her" means management EXPECT you to keep sucking this up. Why would you "be there for her"? She's horrible to you! Even if she were pleasant, it's not your job to "be there for her".
You management sound weak & useless.

Managers clearly don't expect her to say sorry, and she has made no moves to apologise.
You management IS weak, & useless.

They've told me she'll be anxious all weekend because of what she's done.
What about YOUR anxiety, & your weekend?

Managers want us to have an informal chat just to clear the air on Tuesday, but truthfully I am not interested in speaking to her.
"I'm not interested in any informal chats with somebody who regularly verbally abuses me for no reason other than she cannot control her temper.
I'm not interested in pretending this isn't happening any more.
I am not interested in being made Colleague's scapegoat, & the only chat YOU should be having with her is formal.
This is the 5th time she has acted out, upsetting the children, other staff, & of course me. It is time for you to issue a formal verbal warning.
I am not interested in colluding with the pretence that this is not an issue. I am very let down that management have never taken a single step to protect me from Colleague's verbal abuse."
If you don't feel up to saying that, message it to your line manager before your next shift.

If they don't listen to you, & step in with reasonable intervention & preventative steps - tell them you are taking legal/union advice about management covering up bullying in the workplace.

You are perfectly reasonable & within your rights to expect management to grow the fuck up & deal with your colleague.

I agree with others if you are leaving in September you have nothing to lose by opening up a grievance.

Management should be disciplining her for behaving this way to a colleague and for behaving in an aggressive way in front of children.

I would definitely be raising a grievance in writing, and include 2 or 3 incidents so that they can see that it is a pattern of repeat behaviour.

They are obviously not wanting to deal with it for some reason, but she cannot be allowed to continuously get away with this.

I would also get advice from ACAS, if you feel that you are being forced to resign because of her behaviour.

I work in nurseries and deal with some difficult workers at times.
I bet they won't get rid of her as they know they won't be able to replace her with another qualified staff member. It's awful and honestly, it won't get better. You're better off finding another job. As the others have said, if you still want to do nursery work you will have your pick of them as every nursery I know is recruiting. Hope it all works out for the best x

Thank you all so, so much. I am reading through all of these and taking time to process. I will reply to individual points in a minute. I really can't say how thankful I am for all of your responses. I was really hoping I'd get one, so this many is really amazing, thank you.

She actually has tried to blame menopause in the past, and even once told me to "expect it again". Which reminded me that last time I told her I would file a grievance if it happened again. Which means this time is grievance time. Otherwise the cycle continues. I worry it will make things hard for me, but I don't feel safe going into work, and the children aren't safe either.

A couple of PPs have said mentioned me talking to parents. I have no intentions of saying anything to the parents at my setting, I do not believe it's my place and have not indicated in my posts that I will be. I did mention my own parents. I'm not in a union but I will look into joining one. We are a private independant day nursery.

Thank you all for everything, again. Sorry if my replies are a bit slow. I couldn't sleep last night because I was just replaying the situation over and over again. I don't feel safe going to work on Tuesday.

Menopause definately isnt an excuse. If she thinks she cant control her emotions, she needs to take herself out of a school setting because the kids are not safe around her. If she shouts at a member of staff, what about when one or several of the kids are playing up. I really hope she doesn’t get away with this. Not just for your sake, but for the sake of the kids.

This is a safeguarding issue. The children are at risk because of witnessing verbal abuse. It is absolutely inexcusable in a professional setting. You are failing the children by not highlighting this as a safeguarding issue. That two year olds parents should have been informed. Put the grievance in and whistleblow to whoever does the inspections.

Goodness op she sounds horrible. Sounds like she revenges on you as you are nice snd she knows she can bully you.

If I heard this as a parent I would have complained to the nursery manager

The cycle is repeating because your managers aren't dealing with it. If you file a grievance hopefully they will take action but if they don't you have made your position untenable. Seriously consider finding a different job or networking before you put a target on your back in your current job. Is it easier and cheaper for an inept manager to go through a disciplinary process with an older member of staff or to make sure you quit so 'the problem' goes away? I really hope I'm wrong but I think it's irresponsible to encourage you to take action without considering what the negative consequences could be for you. Good luck 👍

I'm not in a union but I will look into joining one

For someone working in a childcare setting that was a very risky choice to make, OP, but at least you're putting it right now

Ditto your decision to escalate this to a formal grievance ... no "informal chats", no "drawing a line under it" but proper process all the way

You can anonymously report to OFSTED. Your grievance can be evidence even if they inspect and angry lady is on her best behaviour.

I'm no OFSTED fan but this is a good situation to use them imo.

Thank you for your suggestion. I have signed up this evening and I'm waiting for their confirmation. I feel so stupid for not signing up before. This will be important for me for whatever I do next. Thank you.

She's generally a very negative person. Rarely has anything positive to say. Working with her has been damaging to my mental health. I never know where I stand with her. I just pray these next few months go quickly.

If I could hand in my notice on Tuesday, I really would. I don't want to give too much detail but I have a few key children with SEN and I have some really important meetings coming up and sessions regarding their transition to school. I need to give 6 weeks notice as per my contract so I can give my notice in July.

Thank you all again. This has been massively helpful.

I don't think anyone is still here but I honestly feel so sick and so unsafe going back to work on Tuesday. I just wish I didn't have to. I can't shake this feeling.