Too not want Drag Storytime for schools

[Neededanewuserhandle]

It's not what I want kids to be subjected to.

What gets me is that hundreds of qualified librarians, children’s librarians, children’s centre teachers and outreach workers have been re-structured, made-redundant or had their roles downgraded in the last decade or so of austerity. These are professionally qualified people (largely women) who really knew about early literacy, who had been running story-times and engaging with families week in, week out for years. Lots of libraries are now run by volunteers or only open limited hours. Children’s centres have been decimated or repurposed into family hubs, warm hubs or whatever ‘hub’ is the flavour of the month.

But forget about boring old qualified women - a one-off sparkly drag event comes along to the library and that’s what is going to get children reading. 🤔

You're so right, it's sad isn't it. They're paid for drag time story times in libraries at least (probably in other venues as well)- £150 for an hour session was mentioned by one of the 'performers'; that's over 12 hours worth of a library assistant who is more of less on min wage. As you say as well so many volunteers instead of paid roles in libraries now too.

I think there is a huge difference between a female impersonator like Dame Edna or Hinge and Bracket, and drag. There is nothing sexual about the former. Similarly film characters like Mrs Doubtfire and Tootsie - again nothing sexual. Female impersonators are not trying to push boundaries or shock. They usual are portrayed as mothers or grnadmothers actually, as pantomime dames are (dames, as in older lady).

Drag on the other hand is a highly sexualised performance often designed to gets laughs by the shock factor and by the grotesque parodying of women's sexual features. The two things are really not the same. And I think there is evidence that Barry Humphries would very much dislike the comparison you make.

Do you seriously see no difference? Would you be happy if women wore the costumes the men did? Would you be happy with burlesque book hour? If not why not?

I presume you have google but can't be bothered.

Two for starters:

Mhairi Black took a drag queen called FlowJob into Glencoats Primary, Scotland

https://www.scotsman.com/education/john-swinney-distances-himself-from-mhairi-black-in-school-drag-act-row-1890433

Aida H Dee went to Lewis School Pengam in Wales

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/17/drag-queen-teaches-pupils-conversion-therapy-spectacular-safeguarding/

Drag Queen Story Hour's own website makes it clear that they go into schools https://www.dragqueenstoryhour.co.uk/schools Perhaps you'll accept DQSH's word for it if you won't believe anyone else.

So I’ve not been to any drag Storytime events, so I’ve just run a google image search and I can’t see what’s inappropriate about the vast majority of the outfits. There are a small handful that are somewhat revealing, I suppose.

Some of the images that you get back for searching ‘panto dame’ show far more sexualised and inappropriate costumes (including the below).

@ChristinaXYZ honestly I am not getting into all that. Anyone who posts things like that, drag or not drag, are clearly vile. There is no debate. I wasn't talking about people like that.

My point was that I witnessed this at my DCs nursery and everyone enjoyed it. It was good fun. So yes, in this case nothing more to say than that.

There are plenty you can google with sexualised names and less appropriate costumes.

You seem to be ignoring my second question. I wonder if there is a reason for that.

Would you be happy with Burlesque Book time? Women in burlesque costumes? Would you be happy with women in the outfits drag performers wear?

Why is it that drag is marketed towards adults if you feel it is so suitable for kids?

Aida H Dee shouldn’t be around kids.

Excellent points.

There are nine protected characteristics in the Equality Act: age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation.

When it comes to equality and diversity initiatives, most of these are ignored. Obviously, there isn't much need for a Married Persons' Story Time, but how refreshing it would be to see libraries getting people with disabilities to tell stories, or women doing jobs that most people still think of as mostly for men, e.g. firefighter, police officer talking about their work, or very elderly people talking about their early lives, or a round table discussion between people of different faiths and no faith.

I wouldn’t have any issue with any man or woman wearing the outfits I’m seeing when I image search ‘drag story time’. They are mostly very modest and some have a fairy tale or panto slant.

I know there have been instances where drag story time costumes have been inappropriate (like the monkey one) - those are objectionable, but appear to be far from the norm for such events.

With that in mind, I don’t understand the point of your burlesque question. I don’t think burlesque outfits are remotely comparable with most of the drag story time costumes I’m seeing.

I agree with you op. It’s the new bandwagon for people who are stuck in an eternal student mindset and who’ve managed to breed. Taking their poor kids to see a drag act in a library makes them feel like an edgy parent who is still cool and “right on”.

Deluded.

Foucault agenda

In which paragraph of which text by Michel Foucault did he recommend drag queen story time?

"Managed to breed" - fucking lovely. Pretty much sums up the horrific attitudes of a lot of the people on here. The bigotry and hatred on this thread is just something else. Good night and good luck to all of you triggered by men in dresses reading a story book. It doesn't happen in schools and if it happens in a library then just... Don't go? Depressing as fuck. I'm out.

There’s a flouncer’s corner where you might feel more at home. Hang on, I’ll look for a link….

@msisfine unfortunately children taken by their parents to these event don't get the choice to just not go if it doesn't interest them.

Why do children NEED to be read to by Drag Queens? Who is this for? Have we run out of non-drag folk to read stories to them?

I’d say Burlesque and drag are very comparable. Something that is fun for a night out if that’s your thing but not designed for or appropriate for children.

Why bring kids into this? There are so many great ways to introduce reading to kid in a fun engaging way. Are you so lacking in imagination you think over the top parodies of women are the only way?

Firefighter story hour, Dancer story hour, Doctors or nurses, Chef etc or even (shock horror) DBS vetted performers who specialise in performing for kids. Why drag? What benefit does drag specifically bring?

@MonsterFiesta
Why is it popular? And what is the purpose of drag storytelling for children?

Reading positive articles about DQSH in the Guardian.

It's really clear that there is zero analysis worth the name going on about why DQSH is a good thing. Try this quote:
'As a temporary performance, drag is by no means the same thing as having a trans identity – but if seeing the former helps kids make sense of the latter, Samuel is delighted.'

Right, so... transwomen can be understood by children to be just like pantomime dames? Are they listening to themselves? If that was the title of a thread on Mumsnet they'd all do their collective nut about how transphobic it was.

I think it's just a thing that started because [blank space] and it happens now because [blank space] and it's a good thing because [blank space]. Well done with the hard thinking everybody.

Sorry but you seem to be under the mistaken impression that I’m somehow responsible for programming these events? To be clear, I am not (and, again, I’ve never so much as been to one). I don’t know why drag story time is currently so popular, but it seems a few in this thread have had positive experiences and I don’t begrudge them that.

Why aren’t you actioning all the things you’ve suggested?

All I’ve addressed is your assertion that there is some clear and obvious difference between pantomime dames and the majority of the performers at drag story hour. While acknowledging that there have clearly been some inappropriate performers out there, the majority of drag story time performers seem to be dressed in a very similar manner to pantomime dames (although some panto dame outfits actually seem inappropriate and sexualized too). If they renamed these events to ‘Panto Dame Story Hour’ you’d probably have no objection to most of them.

The purpose is storytelling.
Drag Queen story hour is the brainchild of an author/feminist/lesbian for the purpose of engaging children in books, just like other ‘story hours’

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Queen_Story_Hour

@tommika did you read the link you sent? Because it wasn't talking about storytelling. Why do children need queer role models? What does that mean?

Why would I know? I’ve never been to a Drag Story Hour, nor so I have any plans to.

I stumbled into this thread without much in the way of preconceived ideas but, given the complaints about the outfits worn, I gave it a google and fail to see why (outside of a few limited examples that have been posted) it is indecent or significantly different to pantomime dames (which, in most instances, it doesn’t seem to be - although apparently whatever distinction there is should be somehow obvious?)