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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that fat people get unfairly bullied?

253 replies

Reallytired · 16/02/2008 14:18

There are those who think that the NHS should not fund essential medical treatment.

It is OK to publically humilate children by weighing them in front of their class mates.

There is a total lack of decent clothes for fat adults and children. Believe that its particularly hard to find nice clothes for overweight children. Surely larger people deserve nice clothes?

And before you ask. I am 5 ft 6in and weight 9 st. I am lucky in that I don't put on weight easy. My slim figure is down to genetics and nothing to do with life choices.

We should accept everyone for who they are and not badger people into starving themselves make them miserable. The press seems to worthship the bodies of those who are so skinny that they are unhealthy. Its abnormal to be size 0.

People with fuller figures should be proud of their bodies and pressurised into attempting to be a totally unrealisic weight.

OP posts:
cestlavie · 18/02/2008 15:52

I'm with rebelmum1 on this one. Of course, people should be free to do what they wish - smoke as much they want, drink as much they want, eat as much as they want. Or to paraphrase JS Mills, everyone has the right to act as he wants, so long as these actions do not harm others. On that basis, I really don't care how fat or thin people are in principle.

Unfortunately, however, we live in world of limited supply of goods and services and therefore certain actions do harm other people to some extent. Everything involves choices. We can't fund everything we need. If we spend more on the NHS, we have to reduce spending on say, education. If we spend more on defence, we have to reduce spending on say, social security. Society has to make prioritise.

On the same basis, conceptually, the 60 a day smoker who needs a lung transplant is denying a new born baby an incubator in the local hospital; the guy who's drunk 9 pints a day since he was 18 and has chronic liver disease is preventing an increase in pension payments; the guy who needs a heart bypass because he's chronically obese reduces funding for books in schools.

More practically, individual health trusts have to allocate their budgets around their needs - if they have to treat more people suffering from illnesses caused by obesity then they have to reduce spending elsewhere. This seems pretty straightforward to me. Equally, it seems pretty straightforward to me that unless you suffer from an eating disorder or a physiological problem which unavoidably results in obesity, you are making a choice. It might not be a simple choice, (e.g. you might eat comfort food, you might not have the time to exercise as much as you like, you might find it hard to shift weight etc) but you're making a choice in the same way that a smoker buying a pack of fags is making a choice or someone getting a crate of beer in for the weekend is making a choice unless you're actually unable to exercise any free will or have any understanding of consequence of course(e.g. an addict or a child) but that's fairly rare.

I drink too much. Not loads too much, but more than I should. I used to smoke loads too. Largely stopped now apart from the occasional sneaky one. If I turned up at the doctors with a disease related to drinking/ smoking too much and he said, "sorry, you've brought this on yourself, we'll do our best to treat you, but you're at the back of queue" I wouldn't be happy obviously but I think it'd be fair enough. I like drinking. I luuurved smoking. I know/ knew they've got health risks but I still do/ did it. I think that's entirely fair way to prioritise health spending. Why would this not apply in the case of obesity?

fedupwasherwoman · 18/02/2008 16:27

I agree with the OP

Some people, especially ladies, may gain weight as a result of comfort eating due to stressful/less than happy lives (there are some less than perfect marriages out there behind closed doors)

Compare the sympathy that these ladies (don't) get from society with regards to what their unhappiness has done to their eating habits with the sympathy afforded to someone who has lost a lot of weight due to hitting an unhappy period in her life.

dal21 · 18/02/2008 16:56

only read op and skimmed briefly over other messages.

YANBU - I agree there are a lot of negative associations with being overweight and I think that is sad. but i disagree that genetics is all that dictates weight.

I didnt gain much weight during pregnancy and lost the majority of my baby weight quite quickly. all down to genetics? doubt it. i was unbelievably careful about what i ate during pregnancy - tons of fresh fruit - resisted virtually all unhealthy cravings (yes i had them). post bub - ate enough to not compromise bfeeding and give me good energy levels; but again zero junk food and lots of long walks.

It was hard work to not gain lots of weight and hard work to shift it. And when i meet people who tell me how 'lucky' i am; i get really hacked off. It took discipline and hard work to get back into my jeans and to dismiss that as luck is offensive.

Kewcumber · 18/02/2008 17:02

"Most people are overweight because they eat too many calories and don't do enough excercise".

I'm so glad that someone pointed that out.

And I'm not going to look thin because I'm not. The OP was about bullying not trying to look a size 12 when you're a size 22.

And yes despite my very small fat clogged brain I do understand all the health related issues but I would rather dangle my DS's arm in a pool of piranhas than have a sensible conversation about what could be done about obesity both in general and specifically in my case on this thread after some of the comments.

spokette · 18/02/2008 17:14

"Most people are overweight because they eat too many calories and don't do enough excercise".

True.

The reality is is if food was scarce, obesity would be a rare occurance.

However, that does not give people the right to bully the overweight.

dal21 · 18/02/2008 18:03

kew - question asked in genuine way. why has this thread made you so upset?

ZippiBabes · 18/02/2008 18:07

i thought this thread was interesting and covered a range of points of view..i don't think it has been offensive

stuffitllama · 18/02/2008 18:36

C'est la vie good points but fat people pay taxes and national insurance for their health service. Shall we deny health services to those who have sports related injuries? The man who gets whiplash after braking sharply because he was driving at 35 not 30? All sorts of conditions are thought to be "brought upon ourselves". As soon as you start to ration you have to answer some very difficult questions about who can and who can't -- who deserves and who doesn't deserve. One group is threatened with rationing which I think definitely DOES deserve care.. the elderly, who have paid all their lives and deserve to be looked after. There's a group which really is bullied and discriminated against. The possible process of NHS rationing hasn't been fully thought through.

Reallytired · 18/02/2008 18:56

Kew, I'm sorry if you been upset. It was never my intention to upset larger people.

OP posts:
Emprexia · 18/02/2008 19:07

You haven't Reallytired, but there have been some glaring examples of the very bullying you were talking about in this thread.

And some very hurtful stereotypes and sweeping statements by 'thin' people who're being incredibly smug and judgemental.

Emprexia · 18/02/2008 19:23

Oh yeah.. someone asked me earlier why i don't use the coil if my BCP makes me gain weight.

Because i'm not on BCP just for contraceptive reasons, i was put on it to help combat painful periods... if i'm off it for more than a few months i'm back to square one, and unfortunately i can't function with being out of action for two days.

on the other side, my AD's are supposed to make you lose weight.. so maybe one will combat the other along with my new found energy they've bought with them

pukkapatch · 18/02/2008 19:27

i think compensation claims should be rationed.
i think the medical profession should not be so mortally afraid of being sued. and i think that compensation is just a bad bad bad thing. it doesnt compensate for the loss of a loved one, or an arm, or a leg. all it really does is mean that the trust cant then pay for an incubator for a newborn, or some vital piece of equipment for someone else. or has to use chaper less effective drugs because all the moeny is either going into paying compensation or insurance.

Kewcumber · 18/02/2008 20:23

I'm not upset - really I'm not - it is far far more upsetting to feel belittled in real life for something than on the internet. I'm being aggressive about it because every single time the subject is raised on MN - a sizeable chunk of the posts end up saying "but just eat less and exercise more". Duh stupid KC, that would be your problem then, you're been eating more and exercising less. And everyone who says it seems to think that that little jewel is the answer to all problems - including it seems why you're allowed to bully and belittle people are fat (yes yes I know that other people are bullied too, but that doesn't mean we're not).

It's a bit like having "I'm struggling with breast feeding" threads where every third post says "but its so much better for the baby". Yes thanks, that was factually correct but absolutely bloody useless.

The problem is that to respond sensibly to these threads means that I need to address this concept of "the obese" like we are some homogenous mass of foreigners who ate all teh pies and couldn't find a gym if we were standing lazing around in the car park. But to do that it means sharing with you why I'm fat and why its not as simple as eat less exercise more (well it is but its not so simple to do). Do you think after the comment about fat people being lazy and fat people shouldnt expect to ear nice clothes because they are still going to look fat that I feel like doing that?

As for the comment that fat people shouldn't get any treatment on the NHS - well I'll fuck off with my money elsewhere then thanks. I've already paid for 3 failed rounds of IVF myself because the NHS won't pay if you're overweight if I was refused lifesaving treatment as well I'd sue to bleedin' arese off them. Would love to imagine you feeling that way if one of your DC's grew up to be fat and thinking "oh well its OK if they don't treat him for heart disease/diabetes at 50, it serves him right." And no my DS is not overweight at all and if I have my way, he never will be, I would never subject him to what I've gone through. How would you decide what illnesses are due to someone being fat. Some cancers have being fat as higher risk factor. That doesn't mean your weight caused it - they rarely know what actually caused it. I have achilles tendon problems, perhaps that shouldnt be treated because I'm fat... oh but if it is treated it would enable me to start walking properly again ... oh yes and its completely unrelated to my weight. If you don;t treat high blood pressure which can also be brought on by being fat, you're not likely ot conveniently and neatly drop dea, you;re more liekly to have a stroke. Are you proposed to have all the fat stroke patients put in a corridor whilst the thin ones are treated and rehabilitated.

I accept the rationing of scarce resources argument I paid for my IVF accepting it was my own fault (try going through life accepting that the problems of the UK health system are your fault and see how that feels) but lets be honest - we currently have a health service which can afford to treat the majority of these conditions at the moment. So the doomsday scenario which everyone is talking about hasn't actually happend yet. Anyone remember when we were all going to die from mad cow disease about 10 years ago .

In fact I'm not trying to deny there's a problem and that I am part of the problem. But crass platitudes like "fat people are lazy" wind me up a treat. In fact is it even possible* for a single working mother of a two year old with no live-in help to be lazy?

If you want a (rare) intelligent comment from me then... the real problem in addition to our increasingly sedentary lifestyle is the vast quantities of cheap subsidised corn syrup and palm oil (ie sugar and oil) which is liberally applied to the most incredible range of products. And anyone who thinks their DC's eat healthily should look at the fat content of the bread they buy. Read it and weep - we are feeding our children fat in a product that doesn't need it, because its cheap and it prolongs the shelf life.

Ramble over. As you were.

Emprexia · 18/02/2008 20:48

applauds kewcumber

Precisely...

There is also the assumption that we/re overweight simply because we're lazy and overeat.. when it is quite often down to other reasons.

They say its easy to get out there and exercise.. oh hey.. the spinal curve i have and the asthma i have make exercising so easy, because of course.. i must be lazy if i'm out of breath and complaining my back hurts after being on my feet for 10 minutes.. it must just be down to the weight and nothing else.

Oh and of course.. losing weight would mean my back would get miraculously better.. yeah, because of course being 3 stone lighter will suddenly cure the curve i've had since birth and been in physiotherapy for for 10 years.. and started when i was a size 14!

JoanCrawford · 18/02/2008 20:54

Kewcumber your post was fucking brilliant!

expatinscotland · 18/02/2008 20:54

Exactly, KC! Excellent post!

Where's it going to get anyone, to just belittle people because of their weight, be they obese or skinny?

And the idea of rationing medical treatment . . . I've never heard of anything dummer in my life!

Then don't have socialised medicine! Wahey, let's go the way of India and the US, people dying of preventable illnesses or illnesses that can be easily cured in their early stages because they're too poor - guess that's their fault for being lazy.

Get real!

violetskies · 18/02/2008 20:55

dd is 13, 4'11 and weighs 10stone, she swims twice a week (wed and sat) for 3 miles a hit with me, goes for a 5 mile walk with her dad 3 times a week (tues, thurs and sun, min sometimes more) and eats a healthy diet. I make the food, she takes packed lunch to school, and doesn't have dinner money. So you tell me why she is obesse and you tell me where we are failing her.

expatinscotland · 18/02/2008 21:01

Violet, she may have a medical problem and it's well worth looking into.

violetskies · 18/02/2008 21:05

I hadn't thought of that to be honest expat. I'll take her to the doctors. I can't believe I never thought of that I just thought it was puberty about to hit.
I forgot to mention the rock climbing for an hour after school every friday,

expatinscotland · 18/02/2008 21:12

My niece had a growth-hormone disorder. Like your daughter, she is extremely active but was obese.

She is 13 and 6ft tall, but this was not a concern because her father is 6ft. 5 in and all the women in his family are at least 6 feet and his own sister 6ft., 2in.

But she needed treatment and although she will never be a skinny minny, she is no longer obese and able to enjoy her activities to the max.

expatinscotland · 18/02/2008 21:12

She is gone through puberty now, so 6ft may be her final height.

violetskies · 18/02/2008 21:37

wow expat, for your neice to be as tall as that at 13 which is such a young age it must of been quite hard for her with her peers being a lot shorter, and then to find out it was not meant to be, must of been very scary for her. DD has girlfriends who are in the 5'7 -5'10 range and it makes her feel uncomfortable as she is so much shorter, so I can only guess how your dneice felt.
It's strange though the last thing I would of thought of was growth-hormone disorder. I will be honest dh mum is 4'10 (dd was so happy when she was taller than he mooma)\nd dh uncle had to take growth tablets as he was so short so the height bit never occured to me as unusual, my parents are both 5'8 and dh dad is 6'4 (you should see the ilaws walking down the street it is sooo bizarre) so I always say my kids could be any height. But I'm going to get her an appt with the docs asap. I am so mad with myself for thinking it was just as it was meant to be and not asking the doctor if it could be anything else. Thankyou for telling me about your neice expat it has given me food for thought.

expatinscotland · 18/02/2008 21:39

not really. she's in the US and there are a greater number of people who are quite tall there.

there could be nothing there could be something.

but a child that young who is doing that level of activity and eating properly and still obese should be checked out.

mrsruffallo · 18/02/2008 21:44

Honestly cestlavie your kind of arguments make my blood boil.
Money is scarce in the NHS but there are many reasons for that.
We are a very rich country and you just seem to have bought in to this nasty bullshit that completely ignores the human element in our decisions.
We are spending billions of pounds fighting an unjust war but don't have enough money to look after our sick?
It is okay for addicts to get treated but not overweight people? Do me a favour! So, the heroin addict who has never worked, has maybe committed violent criimes and been incarcerated several times can be treated but not an overweight person who has worked all their lives and paid contributions?
You are really in very dodgy territory here. There are many people whio lead a rather wayward life including drinking, smoking, drugs, unprotected sex but then they grow up, maybe have dc and accept their responsibility and change their lives- these people should go to the back of the queue too?
The homosexual who sleeps around and doesn't use condoms- thay should be behind someone who contracted HIV from a blood transfusion?
We are human, we make mistakes, we are not perfect and I don't think that anyone as judgemental as you should decide who is worthy of medical treatment

Judy1234 · 18/02/2008 21:51

Everyone would agree there is a UK obesity problem. Losing weight is incredibly hard for many people and almost impossible for a lot of them certainly in the ways they try to do it. We need better education on better ways to eat better. We should restrict where food can be bought - remove all the chocolate machines at stations etc, food machines in schools etc. Food is around too much. Put huge taxes on junk foods, chocolate etc so it become prohibitively expensive. And spend a lot more on over eating disorders and their treatment.

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