To think 11 is not too young to travel on a train alone?

[Tellmeifimwrong]

Please settle a debate! Happy to hear all opinions.

Is 11 years old, starting y7 in Sept, too young to take a one hour train journey, without parents but with a slightly younger child? Put on at one end by an adult and met at the other end by an adult, with a phone and data, and train staff informed? No behavioural problems or SEN.

Which really means they need the skills to do these things before this time. Rather than them starting at 15 and coming across as less competent and more vulnerable.

It was 20-30 years ago so I’m assuming pre internet links for every story.

@OrangeRock so a very long time ago and a very rare occurance.

@OliveOilly as i said, I was assaulted in daylight and asked if I needed help but I was a similar age and didn’t know any different and really needed another adult to take me or the other person away. The adult assaulting me I felt still was an adult and I was confused as they were also being nice.

It was in the news that people assumed back then that as the woman/girl wasn’t shouting for help and just lay there she was consenting and were disgusted/turned away. People are much more aware that rape victims freeze out of self preservation at this point in time.

@OrangeRock I have read lots about the bystander affect and I am sure i would have read about this shocking tale.
But even if it is true, one incident however terrible thirty years ago is incredibly rare. More people have been killed by train derailments in that time in the UK. Or even by a plane crashing onto the motorway. We have to be realistic about risks and not let one incredibly rare incident stop us travelling on trains, driving on motorways, or other normal activities.

Things still happen.
why do parents not want young children to go into a different sex bathroom or wait outside so other adults can see the child is with someone? I don’t get the point that rate means everything is 100% safe?
Risk is up to the parent and this isn’t something I would personally do with my experience. If it was a regular thing needed for school as a secondary then maybe after some teaching. But not at 10.

@OliveOilly @AskMeMore

This just happened… entirely naked man on a train (sorry the link is DM - other newspapers are available!) so I could believe somebody could be seriously sexually assaulted.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12015095/Woman-falls-asleep-train-Edinburgh-wakes-man-sitting-NAKED-her.html

Again Olive, you have nothing to blame yourself for and behaved entirely appropriately - when people are assaulted vocalising their distress or calling out the perpetrator can be impossible due to shock.

And you can’t go around blaming a child for someone assaulting them in a toilet or touching their body while sitting beside them or brushing past.

Yes children are taught stranger danger, but some can be immature or the adult is experienced/good at manipulating them. There is an imbalance of power. Very often too a child won’t recognise sexualised behaviour as they are not sexually active themselves and won’t realise or be able to articulate what happened until they are older. And again to make this clear - when you are being assaulted it is not always possible to scream out or shout for help because of shock/fear response.

Thank you for questioning my recall. I don’t know why people are jumping in to something rare. Yes maybe I made this entirely up in my head. I will seek help.
either let your 10 your old travel by themselves or not. I’m in the bit camp and I’m ok with that. Not from that newspaper article which was front page, but due to my own lived experience. I was maybe a few years older and still couldn’t scream and shout for help.

@OrangeRock Okay so don't let your child walk across a field away from you. Or go on a school residential to France. Or sleep in their bedroom at night.
These are all the scenarios when a child was abducted or murdered over the last forty years.
Incredibly rare things happen. We get on with life. We mitigate for common scenarios. Kids alone in public are most at risk from other kids.

Ah, how times have changed! I used to take my little sister on two buses to primary school when I was 9 and she was 7. I also used to go to London by train with my friend when we were both 11 (1/2 hour train ride). No one batted an eyelid!

Thank you for ignoring my comments about my own assault repeatedly and just typing what you want to for your agenda. Of course I am ok with those other scenarios you described for my child. How pathetic to want to protect them.
trains here are very rural and not lots of people and I wouldn’t feel safe with my child at an unmanned station.
Anyway, I’m off to talk to my DH in real life about the thoughts this has brought up, not helped by people minimising speaking out and having told no one this before. Not even my husband.

off to name change thanks

Absolutely not, no way!!!! Think how much can happen in that time!!! Idiot!

@OrangeRock I am sorry you were assaulted.
The scenario OP is talking about is not a quiet unmanned station with nobody on the train. Although the busiest trains I have ever been on are from the unmanned platform from my sisters house. Trains are infrequent so the platform and trains are mobbed when they do run. Getting a seat is difficult.

I don't believe that happened in the UK at all. It would have been huge news and would certainly be on the Internet now if it was true.

You do what's right for your child, and some of that is based on your own experiences. We risk assess according to our own circumstances, our children, and where we live / environment. Many many women here will have experienced sexual assault as a young person, myself included. That knowledge gives me greater awareness of where things might go wrong and advise my child accordingly. I would not be keen on my child being at an unmanned station. But I would equip them with the skills on what to do, should they find themselves at one.

Can’t find article from decades ago re. rape on trains, but here’s a few recent US/UK so I wouldn’t doubt it’s happened before.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/01/philadelphia-police-bystanders-filming-mistaken-narrative

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10767391/amp/Woman-sexually-assaulted-onboard-train-raped-toilet-police-arrest-man-44.html

No one is saying a child is going to be at this level of risk but there are clearly very disturbed individuals out there… school train with friends very different to train with unknown adults.

risks for adults and children are different, wait a few more more years! This is so simple I actually can’t believe it needs explaining, yet people are really trying to make it ok.

“passing unhealthy anxiety onto children” wtf!, I’m pretty sure parents just want their children to be safe

i think maybe ring social services and ask them if it’s ok for a minor to travel alone

i think maybe ring social services and ask them if it’s ok for a minor to travel alone

They will give you the government guidelines. Which is that it depends on the child and your own assessment of the risk.

@Robinni you shared two articles. One explains that it was not true that a woman was raped on a train. It was a false rumour and it was in the US.

The other was on a train at 11pm, this is when I would be most worried about travelling alone on a train.

Lot of victim blaming/shaming/doubting on this thread.

Very distasteful.

Re-traumatises the victim.

Very low that people are seeking to do this to win an argument over preteens going on trains.

Sorry you’ve had to deal with this crap today @OrangeRock hope you are ok.

That’s great that you don’t believe me, maybe I made it up. But a quick google like others have said shows it does happen more recently and the bystander effect is real so go tell those recent reporters that it was wrong and doesn’t happen. Why is this being picked apart?

Not that different parents have different levels of acceptable risk depending on the country/stations/child’s développement etc? That some parents think 10years on a train is fine and others horrified?

The bystander affect is real. There is research on this, including tips to overcome this if you are a victim. Basically you have to ask an individual for help.

I would say as well, for children (and adults) travelling by train, to also download the guardian app.

Thank you @Robinni
All I wanted to say was that people think stranger danger means their child will shout for help or recognise abuse. That doesn’t happen the majority of the time. Abusers are low level and insidious. Hence family abuse that escalates or the driving instructor moving his hand higher up each week. Children aren’t likely to say this is wrong and stop and ask for help. That’s not the child’s fault or the parents for lack of instilling independent skills.

Thank you for being the only seemingly sane person here today.

You see I am horrified at the idea of 18 year olds who have been overprotected, going off to university alone and going abroad with friends.