Diane Abbott

[Flowerly]

To say that Diane Abbott is doing her best to help the Labour Party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

Hideous antisemitism seemingly not gone away at all and add that to the horrendous misogyny in the Labour Party I wonder at this point why ANYONE would vote for them.

AIBU?

And Starmer has the most ethnic diverse shadow cabinet ever. So fucking what, he has to show his feelings by clearing out the racist and sexist shit otherwise it means nothing. He has to fire those who are uncovered doing wrong otherwise it’s utter bollocks.

That’s not true. Labour haven’t had a female leader but the Tories aren’t the only ones that have. The Greens, Lib Dems, SNP, DUP and Plaid Cymru have all had female leaders.

Yes, she is.

I forgot that part. Don't know how she is seen as 'anti-semitic' at the same time.

I think the main thing is that 'racist' seems rightly, the worst thing to be. So some may feel prejudices against themselves are not taken as seriously. Hence the defence. I think everyone would agree that racism/homophobia/anti semitism/ colourism (including hair colourism)/misogyny etc. are all bad.

But I think we have to also recognise how some forms of bigotry change and affect someone's life at a deeper level than others.

Will your son just be stopped and searched on the street?
Arrested and tackled by police,(sometimes killed) even when they did nothing wrong?
Police not bother with deep investigation when something happens to you?
Will someone not call you for an interview because of who they think you are based on your name on the CV, or what you look like during the interview or your picture?

Apologises to the posters who took offence about my description of a black person, basically. But I was agreeing with most of what poc are saying on this thread.

How is that relevant to whether the Tory party is sexist or racist?

Margaret Beckett was Leader of the Labour Party in 1994 albeit briefly

And then there's Ed Milland who of course is Jewish - so I'm not sure if he counts as non-white

It's a different kettle of fish when it's Russia doing the same to Ukraine, uncomfortable history so the British sweep it under the carpet and pretend it was a bit of name calling. 🙄

I knew family who saw another family member murdered who was a pure innocent. I looked at the army records and note that they lied about the incident.

The bottom line is that what she said is totally unacceptable.

Whoopi Goldberg isn't Jewish. Her real name is Caryn Johnson. Her dad was a baptist minister and her mum was a nurse who sent her to catholic school.

Because I would prefer a leader who was capable rather than elected just to say 'well we now have a female leader.'
And Whoopi Goldberg is not Jewish. She took the name because she thought she would get on in Hollywood with a Jewish sounding name. She was born Caryn Johnson, her father was a preacher. She claims some Jewish ancestry but has never specified who was Jewish. There is no evidence that any of her ancestors was called Goldberg or were Jewish.

Yes, she was acting Leader of the Party for 10 weeks, a post she automatically assumed as Deputy Leader on John Smith's passing. She came third and last in the leadership election that resulted in Blair becoming leader.

Eh? I am left leaning feminist FGS. 😂

Because the party has a gigantic issue with antisemitism as reported by the EHRC.

I meant versus Labour although not phrased well.

No, she isn't Jewish. And she empathically denied that Jews who perished in the holocaust were victims of racism per se. What other word would you call that if not antisemitic, as you say?

@AdamRyan
what do you think Diane Abbott was actually trying to say and, more importantly, why? Whether or not you believe there is a hierarchy she was basically trying to say that the Jewish should stop their complaining.

How is this ok? Why do you persist in defending her?

1997 was amazing. Never felt that incredible sense of hope for the future before or since.

Yes this. Sickening on every level. I no longer recognise what used to be my party.

What did she say that made you think that?
I think she was responding to an article by another author implying "all racism is bad" and white people are more often victims.
The other author said Jewish, Irish and Travellers.

She was explaining why she thought there was a difference between the prejudice those groups face and the racism black people face.

At no point did she make a value judgement about which was "worse".

If I were black, i would also be offended by an article implying white people have it worse.

One side of my family is Jewish, but they stopped being practicing and cultural Jews back in the 30s, (my mother’s, mother’s, mother) the other side of my family is Gypsy Roma people who settled and I know nothing of that culture.

I look white British, I consider myself white British. Never in my life have I experienced any racism.

My friend is Indian. Both sides of her family have been in the U.K. since the 30s too. No matter how British she is people will look at her and see a British Asian woman.

WTF does this mean - why is using the word whip inappropriate when they are explaining the whip has been withdrawn - what word would you like them to use?

@AdamRyan no, not what she said but her underlying meaning. which was minimising. What made her put pen to paper in the first place.

Will your son just be stopped and searched on the street?
Arrested and tackled by police,(sometimes killed) even when they did nothing wrong?
Police not bother with deep investigation when something happens to you?
Will someone not call you for an interview because of who they think you are based on your name on the CV, or what you look like during the interview or your picture?

These are all things that happen regularly Gypsy and Travellers. You can add that G and T have had their entire way of life criminalised and at constant risk of imprisonment, fines and having their homes taken from them.

@SpeedSnap

Why are left British people so obsessed with Palistine in particular? Not that there is anything wrong with helping people suffering high inflation abroad

I think some of it is to do with this loathing of the US and other "western imperialists" and the perspective on the left that anyone who is an enemy of America must be a friend (see also Russia). Because of the situation in the occupied territories and because Israel has to a large extent been supported financially and militarily by the US (for understandable reasons), people on the hard left see it as a "puppet state" of the US. I'm far from endorsing this point of view btw but I've heard people make these types of arguments.

But I think there's also a large helping of good old-fashioned anti-Semitism among sections of the left and I don't really know where that comes from, honestly. At the height of the Corbyn ascendancy there was a lot of very unsavoury stuff going on in Labour which was blatantly anti-Semitic and which Corbyn tacitly tolerated.

I was coming around to the idea of voting Labour again before this Abbott thing kicked off but it suggests there still a lot of this around.

Jews can be anti-Semitic - Norman Finkelstein comes to mind. Though he would deny it of course. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein

@SnickersWasAHorse My DH looks Jewish and has been subjected to multiple racist attacks on the street (he does not wear a yamulke or tzitzit). I don't look Jewish, but have received anti-Semitic abuse when leaving synagogue or the community centre, you can be Jewish and experience both racial and religious prejudice in the UK.