Diane Abbott

[Flowerly]

To say that Diane Abbott is doing her best to help the Labour Party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

Hideous antisemitism seemingly not gone away at all and add that to the horrendous misogyny in the Labour Party I wonder at this point why ANYONE would vote for them.

AIBU?

I wonder why the silly Jews didn't think of this and just take off their skull caps and blend in?? Why didn't Ann Frank just pretend she was a Christian Dutch girl?? I wonder if they didn't think of this? or if they did why it didn't work?

Here is some information about how Nazis identified which people were Jewish:

German officials identified Jews residing in Germany through the normal records created by a modern state. They used census records, tax returns, synagogue membership lists, parish records (for converted Jews), routine but mandatory police registration forms, the questioning of relatives, and from information provided by neighbors and municipal officials.

https://aboutholocaust.org/en/facts/how-did-the-germans-know-who-was-jewish

Long wondered whether DA is unwell, even when she isn't saying something stupid/wrong, she seems to lack any sort of coherence, after all, she is almost 70, could easily have some sort of degenerative illness.

But MN bullies will pile in regardless.

Of course there are physical characteristics associated with being Jewish, but many Jews do not appear physically ‘Jewish’ for example Rachel Riley.

The anti-Semitism is hateful and should - rightly - damage Labour's chances of winning. They may have made some improvements, but they are not there yet.

There's so much whataboutery going on here. 'Diane's comments were awful but what about the Tories' what about them? This isn't about the Tories. I have always been a Labour voter, but if the modern brand is 'we're just better than the Tories' as it increasingly seems to be, then senior members of the party cannot be making comments like she did. People expect bad behaviour and attitudes of the Tories. They expect more/better from Labour. You can want Diane and other racists out of the Labour party without it making you a Tory.

Think you might want to educate yourself on what eastern Europeans have suffered particularly on the UK before Brexit. And for a long time before and sadly after.

She's an idiot, not suited to being in politics in 2023, and probably not suited ever. I don't understand why Labour don't see the need to get their house in order, and never seem to see the need. Just constant conflict in public between the various factions, instead of seeing the need to present a united front in order to get elected and sort out the differences between closed doors. The left wing of Labour can achieve a lot more even with a centrist Labour PM in power than they can in opposition.

I would guess as like with the Irish as time marches on the genocide there and holocaust are remembered by fewer. Then sadly other genocides occur like Rwandan happened in the living memory or more people.

A huge amount of Christians are being slaughtered in Nigeria at present, so people are more focused on those suffering at present trying to help them.

As for slavery, I don't remember anyone post here the Irish were the first or only slaves.

Currently there are salves being bought at birth and people clapping it on from all political wings yet raging about historical slavery they can't do anything about and aren't responsible for.

I hear what you say - the hounding of jewish people by the nazis was utterly
appalling and unforgivable

No-one would have to go to that much trouble to identify my black DC - they would just need to spot him across the road

Can you not acknowledge that this constant visibility is an aspect of anti-black racism?

However I still think she's entitled to point out that black people have been systematically oppressed in a unique way, and have no term to describe that experience.

Which is a very very clever thing if you think about it. If "everyone" can suffer racism then there's no need for specific language to describe specific forms of racism because 'it's all bad'. And given that someone like Rachel riley is jewish, she is at equal risk as someone like Alison Hammond, a Black woman, from experiencing racism. Very smart.

The red-head thing is a bit of a “red herring” here to be honest.

I know a red-head that as a child had to physically fight bullies every day at school and had verbal abuse daily too. Abuse of red-heads is rooted in racism and stems from anti-scot anti-irish anti-celt prejudice.

That said, her main point or opinion is that in reality only people with non-white skin suffer racism, which is clearly bonkers and disgraceful. To her it is all about skin-colour and nothing else comes close, therefore she herself is simply a racist.

I'm not sure how the comparing who has racism worse helps anyone.

There have been different experiences.

I tend to think death camps and extermination of 6 million Jews is the worst thing to happen in Europe in the past century.

That doesn't mean other groups haven't experienced racism.

How so?

However I still think she's entitled to point out that black people have been systematically oppressed in a unique way, and have no term to describe that experience.

do you actually think she wasnt minimising?

Jews have been oppressed in a unique way too.

Racism covers both.

If we need more specific language for the differing experiences within that, find it. But don't minimise what the Jews experience.

Everyone is racist. Everyone has some degree of prejudice whether it's against weight, colour, sex, class, accent or any other factor. It's impossible not to have . Hopefully though

Jewish MNers must feel sick reading this thread.

Her contempt for Jewish people is palpable. To bring redheads into the conversation is more offensive to Jewish people than words can say. She's got away with an awful lot and I hope the Labour Party get rid of her and the rest of the antisemitism who are lurking in the wings.

@Dorisbonson No, not everyone is racist.

@DonnaBanana @Mammyloveswine

She has equated the difficulties and prejudices experienced by red-heads with the lifelong and ingrained racism experienced by the Jewish and travelling races, while also stating black people had it worse....how is that ok?.... Millions annihilated in the holocaust but ya-know its OK because they were allowed on the front of busses in the US and to vote in South Africa...so blacks had it worse.

Just...no.

Meant to continue it's impossible not be shaped by the opinions of parents, teachers, society others. Hopefully individuals minimise it and learn from there own experience rather than prejudice. Diane Abbott seems to be a racist black person. She is not immune from being racist.

She has basically said she doesn't believe being Jewish is a race.

Everyone has some form of prejudice! You have a preconceived notion of someone formed by previous expectations or opinions of others based on class, race, colour, religion, sex, height accent then it is a form of prejudice. Prejudice based on race is racism. I refuse to believe that you have zero prejudice.

There is very much a view in these circles that some sorts of racism are more acceptable than others and Jews are often treated by these people as being in a class of their own because they are so obsessed with the Israel/Palestine situation and Jews are (wrongly) positioned as complicit in this. David Baddiel has talked a lot about the way British Jews are often required to state their position on Israel when talking to people on the left as if they required to "cleanse" themselves of any alliance with or support for Israel in order to be classed as an oppressed group of people

I'll give you a very clear example of this. A friend of mine - Jewish - was hounded out a Labour CLP meeting (literally told to leave) because he wouldn't denounce Israel's right to exist. He has NO connection to Israel (apart from the fact he believed it to be a safe space for the remaining Jews in Europe who weren't exterminated. Because where else were they supposed to go). This is a position shared by many British Jews. This was terrifying for him, and it's the sort of behaviour in my CLP that became normalised and perfectly accepted by people like Corbyn, Abbot and their followers. It has now sadly become a normalised way to talk about Jews and minimise their fears, and not just by the far left - basically Jews have become fair game again

However I still think she's entitled to point out that black people have been systematically oppressed in a unique way, and have no term to describe that experience.

@AdamRyan Fine, so what would you say to elements of the British left that don't allow Jews to point how they have been systematically oppressed in a unique way without being shouted down with 'what about Palestine' 'what about Baddiel' etc etc. Abbot is entitled to say this, of course, but what she actually did today in doing so was suggest that Jews, Roma and Irish have not suffered unique oppression(s). Sorry, but I think Diane Abbot is an active enabler of antisemitism, as are many people on this thread.