That most people don't realise quite how awful the impact of overturning Roe v Wade is in the US?

[Echobelly]

Obviously, most people know that forced birth in itself is an awful thing, but the more I learn about effects, the more horrifying it is. On top of the individual impact there is:

• A lot of anti abortion states also put miscarriages under investigation with the possibility of prosecution https://www.npr.org/2022/07/03/1109015302/abortion-prosecuting-pregnancy-loss
• This means this Ob-Gyns are walking out of forced birth states as they are open to prosecution if anything goes wrong with a pregnancy, and if remaining are reluctant to be involved at all in the first 12 weeks (and mums are reluctant to get care in case they miscarry and are prosecuted), and so there is less cover for any births, endangering all mums https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/07/health/maternity-units-closing/index.html
• Doctors can't provide care to mothers who are experiencing pregnancy complications that are endangering her life, or are forced to wait until the mother is guaranteed to die imminently if they don't intervene https://www.ft.com/content/68dd2cc2-828d-4d00-8ccf-176dbb56d25f
• Adoption and fostering agencies are already overwhelmed
• Most children in US are taking into care for neglect which often translates as 'poor parents' (especially if black or indigenous) - so if a mum is forced to give birth even though she can't afford a child/another child, there is a strong chance she'll have the child taken from her later https://twitter.com/womensmediacntr/status/1649414182998089732

And it goes on...

Fuck me @lljkk that article is horrific, those poor women.

I hope to god this ban never ever comes to the uk.

I honestly don't think it could come here - UK society is far too secular for it to come from the religious camp, so it'd basically be political suicide for any party to bring it up.

The problem Biden had and still has re implementing a federal right to abortion comes in the form of two Democratic senators who are Republicans in all but name: Joe Manchin and Kristen Synema, who hold their seats in very conservative areas and know it. Both are also in hock to big business to an extreme degree and have refused to support federal abortion rights legislation.

A lot of these hardcore American-based groups have been trying to get their foot in the door in recent years.

True, but the underlying cause seems to be religion - all socially-conservative values in the US seem to stem from Christian fundamentalism, and I can't see how that could possibly gain a foothold in a country that's moving as fast as it can away from that kind of setup.

It's also worth noting that the US Supreme Court was only able to do this because the court itself is a political body (ie the court justices are political appointments), which is not the case here in the UK and it would take a fundamental rewrite of our constitution to change that...and the constitutional change itself would be subject to legal approval.

...or, rather, it would be subject to legal challenge, which would inevitably be referred to the Supreme Court.

stem from Christian fundamentalism

Actually, a curiousity is that most (7/9) of the current US Supreme court is Catholic (!!) Thomas is a weird convert who, like Alito, strongly supports death penalty in spite of being supposed fervent Catholic.

Ectopics ? But that is not a viable pregnancy. Can women not get treatment at all for an ectopic pregnancy?

Going by the recent panorama documentary the seem to be downplaying the religion element and trying to discourage/prevent women from having abortion using deception.

Of course they are, because the GOP has to work around the separation of church and state as described in their constitution - the free exercise of religion prevents religious laws from being enacted, so if they so much as mention it their proposed laws will fail on appeal.

The way the strictest laws are being interpretted, seems to be that a woman can't get any proactive intervention if her life is expected to become in danger but isn't in danger yet. Even if the pregnancy is completely not viable.

What I mean is that if her ectopic has burst: can get treatment.

An early scan reveals ectopic: have to wait for it to burst before she can get treatment, unless she's < 6 weeks; even the strictest states still seem to have 6 week windows for interventions. Although I'm not sure about Morning After Pill.

Fetus has died in utero: wait for miscarriage, no offer of D&C.
Womb is hemorraghing badly related to miscarriage: instant treatment.

State rules are all over the place, though. Even nominally very conservative states like Utah or ND are not as strict as Alabama or Idaho.

Sorry, I've not read the whole thread, but I really, really don't understand the pro life pressure not to end an ectopic pregnancy.

Sadly, any medical professional can tell you an untreated ectopic pregnancy will never develop into a baby, ( healthy or otherwise).

What is the actual point in not treating an ectopic pregnancy, as it's not like there's even a small chance that if untreated it may develop into a baby ?

I meant in the UK. This seems to be what they're doing to gain ground over here.

really don't understand the pro life pressure not to end an ectopic pregnancy.

Do you recall with Brexit, having voted to leave, we next had people shouting loudly for the very hardest Brexit possible, otherwise it wouldn't be a real Brexit? A slow careful cautious over many years Brexit wasn't acceptable. Leavers were delirious, frantic to go as far as possible as fast as possible with their "win".

It's like that with reversing Roe vs. Wade. Forget rationality. The anti-abortion folk are terrified of having their prize taken away & so want to take it as far as possible as fast as possible.

Kentucky 2022 referendum result, 53% in favour of not just taking away abortion rights.
Kentucky legislators in 2023: remove all abortion rights anyway.

This battle ain't over by a long shot.

It's not strange that some people aren't up to date with politics in other countries .

Place marking as my bookmark function isn't working

Because those people believe that surgery is akin to magic, and just moving a foetus to the right place will somehow fix everything.

Depressingly, some of these people are actually in charge of things.

They’re fucking morons

But surely they realise ( or maybe they don't realise) , that the majority of women experiencing ectopic pregnancies , want to be pregnant. Thousands of women a year would be having surgery to "save" an ectopic pregnancy if it was possible surely.

Sorry I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here. Someone very close to me had to have emergency surgery for an ectopic after 2 years TTC. The doctors made it very clear to her the pregnancy wouldn't have survived regardless. It seems so offensive they are gaslighting women like this.

Omg that is shocking. Horrific.

They really, really don't. Even when you look at it from their perspective, they're still sacrificing two lives and all of the potential lives that the woman could give birth to, for the sake of a medical impossibility.

This is what happens when you go to the extremes of religious and political ideology. Everybody who doesn't fervently agree with you is "other", and therefore a worthy sacrifice in the name of the crusade.

Not true. A close friend in Texas could only have surgical management once it was a risk to her life - 10 days after discovering the ectopic that could have been managed medically.

It's not like extreme anti-choicers are usually great with scientific literacy or even common sense.

It's abosultly abhorrent

I regularly travel to West Coast blue states inc. days after the ruling and was expecting riots, or atleast a lot of posters and protests and there was nothing. Even at Pride in San Fran I only saw one single sign in about half an hour of the parade.

I've been about once a month since and have only ever seen a total of three signs in all these trips in places where every cafe has a poster for multiple other causes. I occasionally see an article in the middle of the pages about the attempts to revoke the FDA approval of an abortion pill or to prosecute volunteers helping minors (under 18) travel to other states for one. But that's it, its not front page news and I've never overheard anyone discuss it. I go to lots of art shows and not one has covered this cause, but lots of other causes are.

On my last trip I saw a small anti-abortion protest outside a Planned Parenthood center just a 20 min drive from the border with Canada, no one was counter protesting or even batting an eyelid. I was really shocked by that.

It seems like either no one's cares, or doesn't unless it effects them directly or all of the opposition is just happening online

How ridiculous to suggest that women in the UK who disagree with Biden's obsession with removing rights of women in favour of males who claim gender identities are aligned with far right religious extremists who have worked to remove abortion rights.

It must be awful being a woman in the US in current times but this is not the fault of British feminists , nor solely the fault of Republicans.

The Democrats had ample opportunities to enshrine Roe v Wade in statute but failed.

The Democrats think it is fine for men with identities to dominate women's sports and prisons.

The Democrats are not the great saviours of women that you are making out.