That most people don't realise quite how awful the impact of overturning Roe v Wade is in the US?

[Echobelly]

Obviously, most people know that forced birth in itself is an awful thing, but the more I learn about effects, the more horrifying it is. On top of the individual impact there is:

• A lot of anti abortion states also put miscarriages under investigation with the possibility of prosecution https://www.npr.org/2022/07/03/1109015302/abortion-prosecuting-pregnancy-loss
• This means this Ob-Gyns are walking out of forced birth states as they are open to prosecution if anything goes wrong with a pregnancy, and if remaining are reluctant to be involved at all in the first 12 weeks (and mums are reluctant to get care in case they miscarry and are prosecuted), and so there is less cover for any births, endangering all mums https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/07/health/maternity-units-closing/index.html
• Doctors can't provide care to mothers who are experiencing pregnancy complications that are endangering her life, or are forced to wait until the mother is guaranteed to die imminently if they don't intervene https://www.ft.com/content/68dd2cc2-828d-4d00-8ccf-176dbb56d25f
• Adoption and fostering agencies are already overwhelmed
• Most children in US are taking into care for neglect which often translates as 'poor parents' (especially if black or indigenous) - so if a mum is forced to give birth even though she can't afford a child/another child, there is a strong chance she'll have the child taken from her later https://twitter.com/womensmediacntr/status/1649414182998089732

And it goes on...

Horrific, I had a debate with an American pro lifer online who truest believed that ectopics were not reasons to terminate. She called me a ‘pro-deather’ .

I’m sure it’s common knowledge how awful it is.

Truly not truest

I don’t think they’d need to flee all the way across here. You’d just relocate yourself to a blue state surely?

It’ll be interesting in 2024 to see how anti abortion legislation and other legislation aimed at restricting voting aka improving the integrity of our elections impacts voting demographics in those smaller swing states.

I heard a woman on the news who clearly is "for" all of this. She was arguing that because a woman's body is made to give life, that is what it absoloutley has to do if the opportunity arises. Regardless of age. She even argued that whatever a 10yo had to go through in the event of the being pregnant was "worth it" because their body's whole purpose is to give life.

These are the same people who argue that the right to bear arms comes way above the children in school's right to life.

It made me feel sick listening to her.

He can't overturn a supreme court decision
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States

This.

They shoot strangers for ringing the wrong doorbell, or parking on the wrong drive, but thinking forced birth is absolutely fine.

Just sick.

It is awful.

I'm increasingly upset that many 'feminists' in the UK are vocal in support of the same US Republicans. They amplify the messages of this anti-women movement regularly, in the name of feminism.

Your post doesn't include the horror of TFMR.

I cannot imagine the hell of diagnosis, but then having to leave my family, travel to give birth to a wanted, loved baby, and be worried about what I was going to experience, from the authorities or judgement from people I knew, on my return whilst planning my babys funeral.

These two things are ideologically consistent as they are about the traditional power structures, not human rights.

I'm a land owner, I can kill an intruder.
I'm a man, I can control my wife.

The ideology is consistent, despite being abhorrent.

the UK is smaller than most states of America. How many people do you think this island will hold ?

Insanity
I often say there are many countries like this but I find people are surprised to hear Malta is one.

The forced birth lot disgust me but I am starting to wonder if the current crop are of the type where they literally haven't thought about this aspect.

I know someone who describes herself as anti abortion but every example you can give her, says, "oh it's fine in that situation".

I lean heavily towards being pro-life, but YANBU I agree with you. Upstream of unwanted pregnacies are reckless ejaculations and that is where the moral and legal emphasis needs to lie. Compulsory garnishing of wages from men who cause pregnancies (like student loans), prosecution for mother & child abandonment etc. Leave abortion alone for essential medical care and post-rape care. When abortion is 100% banned, the downstream consequences are broken women’s and childrens lives and bodies (eg Savita). Yet no man NEEDS an ejaculation (and if he does he can do it into a tissue, well away from women’s bodies). Men need to start being responsible for their spark of life and stop women and the unborn being swept onto the rocks of oblivion by their lustfulness.

Perhaps people just don't know much about Malta? I can't see why it would come as a surprise if they did

YANBU

However what most people don't realise is that abortion is also technically illegal here in England, Scotland and Wales too under the 1861 Crime against the persons act. The 1967 abortion act doesn't make it legal or decriminalise it, but provides a legal defence for women seeking one and the doctors performing one as long as they meet the terms of the act.

In august 2022 there were two women in England waiting to stand trial in relation to abortion offences. One was 25 and taken abortion medication but the baby was born alive. The other woman took telemedicine abortion medication during the pandemic so had no idea how pregnant she was. It turned out she was 28 weeks and now faces a life time sentence.

A 15 year old girl had a stillbirth and the authorities got involved, took all her devices and dragged her through court to prove she hadn't ended her pregnancy illegally. Autopsy's eventually proved baby died of natural causes but the impact on the girl was immense, she was studying for her GCSEs at the time and her mental health suffered immeasurably and she was self harming.

In other cases surrounding abortion in the UK I remember in recent years but not sure on dates, a woman ordered her abortion medication pills online as her abusive boyfriend refused her access to the hospital or doctor. She believed she was 8-10 weeks pregnant. After her bath filled with blood it was proven she was much further on and she was charged under the crime against the persons act after she was arrested in her hospital bed and sent to prison for 2 years.

At least 17 other women have been investigated over the last 8 years for abortion offences.

To me this is equally awful. We need to fight for abortion to be legal, not just available as a legal loophole, here in the UK, otherwise sadly I can see us heading the same was as the USA because usually wherever the USA goes the UK follows.

This will have long term consequences for not only women but the US as a whole.

There was a big drop in crime in the 90s in the US which it is now acknowledged was not due to policing etc but the legalisation of abortion in 1973. In States where it was legalised sooner, the crime rate dropped sooner. Unfortunately access to abortion affects poorer women more, crime is linked to poverty. So in approximately 15-20 years time the US, unless women and families are supported, is likely to see a surge in crime again and given their gun laws etc it could be catastrophic.

Women will die , but the forced birthers don’t care

Women in non abortion states are now being advised to not use period tracking apps as your app could work out that you are pregnant. Remember that you can also be prosecuted for helping someone travel to elsewhere to access an abortion.

That was the Freakononomics hypothesis, but as I recall it was controversial; crime rates fell in a similar way in other countries during the same period, regardless of when abortion was legalized.

There is unlikely to be many more babies born as a result of the abortion ban.

Obviously, abortion bans are bad for other reasons though.

Thank you for sharing this. I had no idea this was the case. I like (assumingly) the majority of people thought abortion was legal in the Uk and that was that.

im appalled at the things I’ve seen (on the news etc) about this happening in the US.

there’s always been the pro life pro choice debate. And people will always disagree with something. But to actively endanger women’s lives. Nah.

YANBU of course. But what is more worrying is that most people dont have a clue about the number of senior anti-abortionists in the Tory party ranks and indeed there are many more who are abstaining from votes in relation to abortion (including our dear PM and the disaster that went before him). Fucking terrifying. Anyone even thinking about voting Tory who is concerned with women’s rights should wake the fuck up right now.

Getting scarily close already. The WaPo ran a story recently on TWO near-Savita type cases. Friends, tragically. Both WoC which also doesn't come as a surprise.

And don't forget Poland - a very similar sepsis death last ? year - and Malta - American tourist got out by the skin of her teeth because doc's okayed a last-minute medevac. There ought to be official travel warnings.

This 100%. I read about this about 10 years ago in Freakanomics. The real consequences of the decision will be seen in 20 years time.

There are very very clear pro-choice majorities across pretty much everywhere. Forced birth is only possible because of counter-majoritarian institutions.

It’s about controlling women so they don’t care