Teacher salary pro rata?

[JackSheepskin]

So I might be an idiot… but I’ve seen a lot recently about how teachers aren’t paid for the holiday periods, their salary is pro rata and paid equally over 12 months.

Therefore if I saw a job advert for £60k, does that mean you don’t actually get £60k but whatever remains from that salary after the additional 6 weeks holiday is taken off? Or is the salary advertised already pro rata?

But yeah, go ahead and strike literally weeks before my DC does their A-levels, why the fuck not, eh?
If your DC has had specialist teachers up to this point in their a-levels then they should be ready for their exams. One of the reasons that I’m striking is because I’m worried there won’t be enough teachers by the time my DC get to do theirs.

So because there are people who earn less than teachers, teachers are not allowed to strike in your eyes? I hope you've said the same to doctors, train drivers, postal workers, civil servants and more who are also striking, then, because they earn more than low-paid workers.

addition to the hours a teacher is required to be available for work under
paragraph 51.5 or 51.6, a teacher must work such reasonable additional hours as
may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional
duties, including in particular planning and preparing courses and lessons; and
assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress
and achievements of assigned pupils.
51.8. The employer must not determine how many of the additional hours referred to in
paragraph 51.7 must be worked or when these hours must be worked.

I dont understand why people only mention the directed time bit.

There is also a paragraph on a right to a work life balance in carrying out the above, and they it should have regard to the working time directive when discharging duties

@MrsCharlesFrere

Thanks for confirming there is no mention of holiday payment in the document.

It's maybe hard to fathom when put in the context of what a normal salaried job is but it isn't a lie. That's the critical concept that teachers aren't paid for holidays. They are paid for when they work and it's split into 12 payments

https://uk.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/average-uk-salary

TBF I can see the point that median is probably more accurate, and that’s more like £31k. Still, would take teachers a couple of years to reach that, and even more years to surpass it by a couple of k.

A salaried worker is paid for x working day + y paid holidays and it's split into 12 payments

I know it's on the Scottish pay scale but I've yet to meet or hear of an actual real life 'lead teacher', or even see a job advert for one. I suspect they are much like chartered teachers, also included in the published pay scales but such as tiny number still exist (& no one new can become one) that it's misleading.
That being said, following recent strike action Scottish teachers are better paid than those in Wngland.

But (also according to recent research) teachers do the most...

Is the below incorrect then?

"According to the Government’s 2022 School Workforce in England Report, the average Full Time Equivalent salary for the 465,526 teachers in state-funded schools was £42,358 per annum."

"The average salary for a classroom teacher was £39,000, compared to £57,100 for a leadership teacher (excluding headteachers), and £74,100 for a headteacher."
"Secondary school teachers were said to earn slightly more (£40,400) on average than primary school teachers (£37,500). Salaries were higher on average in Local Authority maintained schools than in Academy schools"

"The government is currently committed to implement a starting salary for teachers in England of £30,000."

Teachers are saints we must not say anything against that

What?

Lead Teachers are mythical beasts is Scottish Education - a bit like haggis in the hills. They can include them in the pay scales all they want but no one I seems to have ever met one!

@Postapocalypticcowgirl

According to teachers?

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me

The OP inferred £60k was a typical teacher wage. It’s just not, not even in Scotland. It’s like saying all store assistants across the country have decent wages, because the store manager at Aldi is on £62k after 4 years.

You needed to specify you were in Scotland in the OP because Scottish teacher terms and conditions are different to rUK, so a lot of the answers will be irrelevant.

It's also really shitty to use a nation which has won a pay rise to have a clear dig at teachers who haven't yet.

What a scummy thread to start.

Also teachers deserve better pay than army officers because we are educating the next generation, and they are killing them. So there's that.

I'm a teacher at the top end of the scale and I have responsibilities - I don't get 60k. That would be for senior leadership but not a classroom teacher, even with a Head of Dept role like myself. My DP is an officer in the military and earns more than me op so the comparison doesn't work really.

I should also say teaching pay is quite low in comparison to other countries. I have to be here but if I was single, I'd move abroad. Pay and conditions are much more favourable. I do think that has to be considered. Our teaching certificate works anywhere so the UK govt has to make it more attractive really if it wants teachers in UK schools.

What are the great perks?

So teachers are making up the hours they work?

What are you implying?

can we see this advert please

Given that the top end of teacher pay is £42k approx. (England 2022)

The numbers are not correct as they take into account the leadership team and head teacher.

*Except its not unpaid overtime is it?

Because of the shit contracts.

Which essentially say you work the hours the job requires. Not school hours term time.

The document linked above says that teachers are required to work 1265 hours over 195 days. 1265 divided by 195 is 6.48 hours per day. Personally I am in school working from 8 until 5:30 Mon-Fri in term time, so 9.5 hours, and always work at least 2 hours on a Sunday. I've just looked at my school calendar. 192 days actually in school, including INSET days. So my total working hours during weekdays are 1824. Let's be generous and call it 1810 - there have been a few days this year I've left at 3:30 because of an appointment or something. And I'm not countany of the work I do at the weekend. Lots of teachers work more hours than me.

I earn comparatively less than I did in 2010 and thousands less than colleagues in Scotland and Wales who are doing the exact same job.

That is my objection to pay. Whether randoms on the Internet think it's quite good, or more than they earn, or more than I'd get if I was in the army, is irrelevant.

@Sherrystrull

I'm not implying anything

It just doesn't surprise me that teachers think they work more hours than anyone else.

Pretty much everyone overestimates (more research!) how much they work. Including nurses and teachers

Well obviously it doesn't, because the STPCD doesn't cover everything. For example it says nothing about paid sickness or maternity leave either. That doesn't mean teachers aren't entitled to them.

For some reason some aspects of teachers' pay and conditions are set out in the STPCD and some are in the Burgundy Book, which is a collective agreement between the National Employers Organisation for School Teachers and the teaching unions. I assume the Burgundy Book still exists, though I haven't been able to find an up-to-date copy on line.

Things are complicated of course by the rise of academies which don't have to follow either the STPCD or the Burgundy Book.

My daughter teaches at an academy and when she started she was sent a contract which set out her entitlement to pay, sick and maternity pay and various other things. If I remember rightly it also set out an entitlement to annual leave, saying it had to be taken when the school was closed.

Teachers are saints we must not say anything against that.

What has saintliness got to do with anything? Pretty sure this thread is about pay. Nobody has said anything about teachers' moral character.