Teacher salary pro rata?

[JackSheepskin]

So I might be an idiot… but I’ve seen a lot recently about how teachers aren’t paid for the holiday periods, their salary is pro rata and paid equally over 12 months.

Therefore if I saw a job advert for £60k, does that mean you don’t actually get £60k but whatever remains from that salary after the additional 6 weeks holiday is taken off? Or is the salary advertised already pro rata?

I think you missed the point, this LSA is entitled to 5.6 weeks AL, rather than 4 weeks. It was updated in July 22. If the poster is only getting 4 week al then she’s needs to speak to them. How the is divided per month is not what I was commenting on, she could be missing out on 1.6 weeks pay.

If you can find me a lead teacher in your local school I'll buy you your playpieces for the rest of the term. In 15 years of teaching I've never met one.

In a school of about 20 class teacher we have 3 PTs, 3 deputes and a head.

The ceiling for most is the £45k.

You are using army for comparison. There is much more promotion opportunities in army. How many years at uni do you need to join the army? 0. We spent 4 years plus a probation year to qualify.

What hours do you get paid to do though? And how many hours a day do you work for no pay?

Actdottie - BROTHER being the operative word. No you don't need that many years experience - if you've got a dick.

@Saltired yes it probably does depend on individual schools and as you may already know there is very little transparency in the private sector when it comes to salaries. I just happen to know in my work with the union that many independent school teachers are paid less (I'm talking fully qualified teachers here) and that payment for responsibilities, etc. does not follow a proper scale like in state. I've know of staff to be given a meagre one off payment for being a head of year for a term, for example. Also many private schools have had the TPS taken away (or it's in the pipeline) and the workload is unsustainable. I think many parents would be shocked if they knew how little the teachers were being paid in spite of the hikes in the fees.
It's pretty depressing (and absolutely unacceptable!) to hear of the pitiful rise that's being offered to state school teachers but it's still more than what my school has offered its staff as a pay rise...
Sorry - it's late and I'm tired!

Independent schools were also separately balloted for strike action and many in England met the threshold. Not sure what’s happening about that though. I’m

This is one of those eternal debates between teachers and non-teachers that the latter often uses as provocation (not saying OP is doing that). DH is a teacher and says if you subscribe to the view that he’s not paid for holidays then he has a well paid part time job. Obviously he’s being facetious bit hopefully you get the point.

Independent schools were also separately balloted for strike action and many in England met the threshold. Not sure what’s happening about that though

Were we?? I must have missed that! Which union?!

NASUWT.

Don't forget over 20% pension contribution though so real pay is around £34k. Not too bad for a starting salary.

Teachers ARE paid for holidays - by law.

Full time teachers are at school (directed time) 195 days per year. Adding on the standard 28 days holiday entitlement (required by law) that makes 223 days, but they are paid for 365 days.

A teacher on £38,810 is not paid £199.03/day for 195 days. They are not paid £174.04/day for 223 days. They are paid £106.33/day for 365 days.

This was made crystal clear during the recent strikes. A teacher did not lose 1/195 or 1/223 of their salary for a day on strike, they lost 1/365 of their salary for each strike day. This comes from a long running case that was finally settled in the Supreme Court (Hartley v King Edward VI College - 24/05/2017). All the teaching unions know this and you can find it in their literature and on their websites.

Well no, because you don’t actually get that pension money in your pocket for another few decades if at all.

You don’t see other professions being picked at to include stuff like pension contributions or bonuses or other benefits when these comparisons are being made.

@JackSheepskin I left teaching 5 years ago and after nearly 30 years service my salary was £36,400. So your suggestion that teachers are on £45k after 5 years is beyond ridiculous

And further to this, how many hours where you do no work are you being paid?

Yes, I know we get longer holidays 🙄I’m saying that some people think it’s ok (in social situations) to go on about that, whereas it’s apparently not ok to go on about how overpaid they are. If you point out to these tedious bastards that we ‘don’t get paid for holidays’ (even though that’s a contentious point) it at least forces them to consider the issue of pay - ie we get a lot less than their corporate salary so it fits that we work fewer weeks 🤷‍♀️

Or you are too thick to understand. Pay is for a certain number of days. It is then averaged over 12 months.

Don't forget over 20% pension contribution though so real pay is around £34k. Not too bad for a starting salary

You might think it's good. Particularly if you live long enough to get the pension. Might be good if there were regular pay increases. But there are still teachers leaving in increasing numbers and recruitment targets haven't been nearly met across the board.

So...it's.not good, is it?

@Saltired

Your col? Surely it's everyone's?

I havent said teachers are well paid. I think they (especially English teachers) deserve a pay rise and complete overhaul of their contracts. I dont think they are badly paid, especially in comparison with other ps workers. But the job certainly deserves to keep up with inflation

@redbigbananafeet

We are paid 11.5. Work 12.5.

How many hours we work for no pay varies from shift to shift. As I said, some days I could work 14 hours. Sometimes I'd claim the time back or request overtime but mostly not.

Some shifts (rare) it's a bit less crazy and we get breaks and finish on time.

It's hard to say.
^^

Yes you do.

Nurses, junior doctors, gps, civil servants, council workers.

Bankers/City workers

Any role that has a decent pension or a bonus then they will be told they have to remember them.

Plus nurses and doctors are constantly reminded about enhanced pay and overtime

It's happened on this thread

but this is the exact problem, isn't it.

Thousands upon thousands of teachers have left, and thousands more are leaving, to the point which few children in the country now have a specialist for every subject - and some dont have a teacher at all, so classes are collapsed and put together under the eye of a member of support staff with no professional qualifications,

so its a bit pointless to say "why not leave" - that is exactly what is happening

It is far more pertinent to say "why not join" when people think it is such a easy gig, and they are jealous. It doesn't really matter how long someone lasts, even a year or two in the classroom is an extra pair of hands for us for a tiny amount of time - and God knows we are desperate for it.

So it seems really daft not to apply to train - what have you got to lose? If you are right, that the life is so easy- then you have got yourself an easy life, haven't you?

And if you are wrong, you have got yourself more qualifications, and experience, and have helped out for a short time,

win-win

@Nimbostratus100

Of course its as daft to say why not be a teacher as it is to say why not leave.

Thousands of teachers are leaving. Many more are not. Scotland doesn't seem to have the same issues either.

Some people may well want to retrain to be teachers, others probably couldn't think of anything worse, regardless of pay or holidays.

Thinking the pay isn't that bad comparatively and teachers do get paid for the long holidays which is a perk, isn't the same as being jealous of teachers or that you'd give up your own job that you probably enjoy. Loads probably can't afford to retrain either

There are loads of issues with education in general and teaching is not an easy job.

But christ do teachers get defensive about it

It is rather spectacularly missing the point that it doesn’t matter what you think about the pay or the perks if they are neither encouraging people into the profession nor retaining them in anything like the numbers we need.

Repeating it over and over in every thread doesn’t make it any more relevant. Why would you keep on making a shit point?

I seem to recall that it was for entertainment.

Scottish teachers lost 1/235 per strike day as they are paid for 40 days annual leave & the remainder of the school holidays are classed as 'school closure days'. So in Scotland the majority of school holidays are unpaid.

The obvious conclusion to that is, if you think its that shit, why arent you leaving?

because at 50 something, with many years service, hanging on for the pension seems like a sensible thing to do. If I were 30 something, I’d have left at least 5 years ago, maybe as many as 10. Schools are now staffed by the under 40s in the main, probably under 35 in some schools and potentially younger. There are pros and cons to that but mainly cons since experience in the sector has all but disappeared and there just isn’t the skill and experience to pass on to those coming through. Schools are not the places they were 20 years ago and are getting worse and worse.

You really do need to have a look at recruitment statistics and retention statistics and think about what they mean for the teachers who do train: mainly, they can walk into jobs in the best schools, and the independent ones, because they don’t have to manage the challenges of even a mediocre one. Where does that leave your children on a personal level but at a national level, just where does that leave us? Majority of kids being ‘managed’ (not taught) by people with few, if any qualifications. What does that mean for this country’s future?

You shouldn’t be asking ‘so why not leave?’…you should be fearful of what that means for all of us. If all our experience, specialists (who have been in short supply in some subjects for over 30 years now) and good but young with concerns about financing their futures teachers keep going at the current rate, we will have schools staffed by people with only GCSE and A Level education and they will never last more than a couple of years.