Teacher salary pro rata?

[JackSheepskin]

So I might be an idiot… but I’ve seen a lot recently about how teachers aren’t paid for the holiday periods, their salary is pro rata and paid equally over 12 months.

Therefore if I saw a job advert for £60k, does that mean you don’t actually get £60k but whatever remains from that salary after the additional 6 weeks holiday is taken off? Or is the salary advertised already pro rata?

I think a teachers work and responsibilities warrants more than the average wage of the country.

Does the average teacher not earn more than the average worker?

Ime the pay, progression & pension is good but the conditions are the issue.

What are you actually trying to get out of this thread OP? You clearly think you’re right because of what leadership teachers get paid in comparison to the army so you’re obviously not up for a discussion, or willing to considering other points of view.

What are the great perks?

A "normal" scale in Scotland. Not indicative for England, where it's more in-line with your Army example.

And you may never ever reach UPS 3. Or M6. There’s no automatic pay progression anymore and expensive (older) teachers are managed out.

Hmm compared to some professionals teaching is badly paid (doctors,lawyers,accountants). Its more in line with nursing, social work etc. However as I showed you above if you add up all the hours worked and spread out evenly teachers wouldnt even get the minimum holiday requirements.

OP what are you looking for here??

As a country we are losing teachers and education is in a state.

How is this helping?

Here's the Government document. Feel free to pick out where "holiday pay" gets covered

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/1110990/20222_STPCD.pdf

So where exactly is the £60K?

The average salary in 2020 was £38,something.

TBF it’ll have increased a bit since then but a teacher would have to be at the top of MAIN/into UPPER before getting the average salary, and even when into UPPER they would not receive much more than average.

Except its not unpaid overtime is it?

Because of the shit contracts.

Which essentially say you work the hours the job requires. Not school hours term time.

You can only work overtime if you work over time. Teachers contracts say they don't.

There’s NO AUTOMATIC pay progression!

After 5 years, a teacher could be on M1 still. An experienced UPS3 teacher, could change jobs and go down to M1-6 (I went from UPS3 to M6 after 18 years of teaching).

If it helps, OP, I've been teaching 15 years, have an MA in Education, a PGCE and a PGDip in Education. I'm on £43k.

@LotsOfBalloons

But that's only if every teacher actually works those hours that are reported

Lots do. Some won't

Technically a teacher could work school hours term time.

@JackSheepskin I hadn't realised teachers in Scotland got so much more! You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that!

Teachers are paid for 1265 hours a year. That's it.
It works out 6.5 hours a day which is laughable but feel free to believe what you want 🤷🏼‍♀️

Of course teaching is stressful and they have to deal with ridiculous amounts of bureaucracy and poor behaviour - that makes it unappealing.

But to whinge on here about how many hours you do over the yearly allocation of hours and days is just irritating. If you're a professional you earn a salary, you're not paid by the hour. There aren't many professional roles where people leave on the dot of 5pm every day. And it must be a mirage when I see my teacher friend sharing all her numerous family holidays on facebook.

But yeah, go ahead and strike literally weeks before my DC does their A-levels, why the fuck not, eh?

Meanwhile all the millions of people in jobs that are actually low paid, like care workers, retail, hospitality, admin - they just crack on and hope their kids' futures aren't too badly affected.

Er no a teacher couldn't work school hours.😂. When do you think they plan the classes, mark essays, deal with emails, attend meetings etc.

I guess a flaw is that people mistakenly see school hours and think that's when teachers work. It really isn't. Half the work is done when the children aren't around. It's a common mistake though.

It doesn’t really matter whether the OP or anyone else thinks it’s a good salary with great perks or not. The fact is, there is a HUGE recruitment and retention crisis in teaching at the moment so clearly something needs to change. That ‘something’ could be salaries, or it could be conditions, but goady posts like this definitely won’t help.

Who's the one whinging?

Honestly, striking is for pay and conditions for all children. Surely an A level student can direct their own learning/revision?

Flamingo - I only pointed out the hours in response to people saying about the holidays. The conversation often goes like this.

A Look! Teachers have lots of holidays.
B hmm actually if you worked out the hours annually they'd get less than most people.
A look teachers Moaning about hours!🤦‍♀️.

Some people just don't like teachers and others just don't listen.

There's a crisis with teachers leaving the profession. It would be an idea to listen to them.

@PinkFrogss I'm surprised it that high? do you have a source?

@FlamingoCroquet

Schrodingers teachers according to mumsnet

Work every holiday but are also off every holiday so don't need childcare

But to whinge on here

This is what teaching threads on here all boil down to. A non teacher comes on here and says teachers have it easy, to which teachers reply saying they don’t.

Teachers are then accused of whinging…

Page 48 specifies that full time work is 195 days.

Pages 1-47 cover salary pay scales in the context of full time pay.

They are paid an annual salary for which they must be available for directed work for 195 days.

So let's cut the crap that you are not paid for holidays. A teacher's annual salary can be compared to anyone else's annual salary without trying to misdirect with the unpaid holiday myth.

Yes you work more than 195 days, and the pay scales are too low, and the stress is enormous. But the nonsense about unpaid holidays suggests that either teachers don't understand your own contracts or else you think everyone else is too thick to understand.

Shiny that's it exactly.

I'm out now. Got some papers to mark. Threads like this are a bit disingenuous. People don't really want to learn or engage.