Teacher salary pro rata?

[JackSheepskin]

So I might be an idiot… but I’ve seen a lot recently about how teachers aren’t paid for the holiday periods, their salary is pro rata and paid equally over 12 months.

Therefore if I saw a job advert for £60k, does that mean you don’t actually get £60k but whatever remains from that salary after the additional 6 weeks holiday is taken off? Or is the salary advertised already pro rata?

About right.

I dunno, people in Scotland seem to feel like they know exactly what it’s like because they went to school once and their kids have sat in a classroom.

Someone in here actually argued with me about what my job is like - bearing in mind they aren’t a teacher themselves - because of what their primary school aged children told them 😂

The U.K in general is pretty bad for it. England has a special place though - especially on the global pay scales and Westminster driven press.

I am not shocked at all!

@Botw1 you pop up on so many threads about teachers with your vitriol. Honestly, what is actually your problem? How does the salary of a profession you do not belong to you bother you so much that you spend so much time bitching in that know-all tone. It is actually pathetic.

look for a better job and social life for yourself rather than spending so much time filling that black void by getting off on this.

i bet you are a bloody nightmare to work with.

Yes, us up in Scotland definitely do have it better than in England. And that’s not saying much, it’s pretty bad up here too!

It's very confusing isn't it. The declared position that teacher's don't get paid for holidays is widely accepted, whereas the vast majority of other salaried jobs include an annual paid holiday entitlement.

The vast majority of other salaried jobs being those where employees can choose and ask to take their annual leave at flexible times that they wish.

Teachers can't choose when to take annual leave. Teachers don't accrue annual leave. Teachers are directed to work for 195 days of the year which is a full time teaching role, with the other days being those where the schools are closed to pupils. Those 'closed to pupils' days that teachers aren't paid for often include a number of days where the school building is open to staff and teachers use that time to meet the rest of their contractual duties. The rest of the workload is undertaken at home, in evenings and weekends during term time.

So yes, it is confusing.

Not true. I'm sick and tired of this myth being perpetuated. Believe me private school teachers are often paid LESS than their state counterparts.

In Scotland, we have our normal annual leave entitlement which is comparable with a “standard” job, which we are paid for - I think it’s maybe 25 days.

The remainder are termed “school closure days” which we do not get paid for.

In-service days are neither.

The entire school calendar is set in advance, and each day that school is closed is allocated either as a holiday or school closure.

I can’t think of any other job where you get absolutely no autonomy over your holidays.

It depends. When I’ve applied for private schools, the salary has been 10% above the standard teaching pay scale. That being said; there are not many private schools around me.

I left.

and considering the recruitment and retention crisis, so are many others….

Anyway, yours is a lazy argument - you can’t 'just' leave. There’s a COL crisis. A bad (awful) job still puts money and food on the table.

I see one pp has also noted that SLT is incompatible with family life (as are many management positions) so it's the ones without dc (or the main responsibility for dc) that end up in charge. Sad but true.

Until this situation is rectified, so the best teachers with management acumen are the ones in charge of most schools it will always be an ever-decreasing provision. Like lions and vultures feeding over the dead meat of the hopes and aspirations that any child might have.

Too many people lay too much on their own worth, demanding larger slices of an ever-decreasing cake. And that description goes to all of us.

@TwoCoffeesandAMilkshake

I wasn't actually arguing it. Just pointing out how daft it is to say.

COL also applies to all the so why dont you just be a teacher comments.

But anyway, I see the thread has descended in to PAs

It's a shame some people can't cope with a difference of opinion without resorting to it.

But yeah, go ahead and strike literally weeks before my DC does their A-levels, why the fuck not, eh? Meanwhile all the millions of people in jobs that are actually low paid, like care workers, retail, hospitality, admin - they just crack on and hope their kids' futures aren't too badly affected.

We currently have A level classes with no teacher. Kids futurrs are being impacted much more by the recruitment and retention crisis in Teaching than they are by a couple of strike days. There are subjects we currently offer at A level that we will most likely have to cut altogether because we simply cannot fill the vacancies. It's disruptive enough for students to be taught by an endless procession of Supply Teachers instead of their own Teacher, but now we can't even get Supply Teachers!

… but surely becoming a teacher would help your COL crisis, since they are so well paid?

Because as an ex teacher I was on less than half of that. DH who is a head of a large primary does not earn that.

@Saltired we get 40 so a bit more than many jobs and when I worked in pharmaceuticals I got similar, but you're right about the school closure days.

We currently have A level classes with no teacher.

Yep, if you're panicking about your child missing A-level lessons (or GCSE lessons) due to strikes, then they're actually in a privileged position compared to other students who haven't got a teacher and who have been teaching themselves or had random supply. Their parents have been panicking too, and for longer.

Not saying it's not shit for the kids missing lessons (although some striking teachers may still teach exam classes this time round), but in terms of the wider picture, it will benefit more kids in the long term if we can actually get to a situation where there are enough teachers to go around.

Is that in Scotland? I’m pretty certain it’s 25 I got, based on my maternity leave from last year?

@Saltired
Yes, Scotland - definitely 40 days paid annual leave. I'm not sure how it works for maternity but I know if you're unwell over school holidays you only accrue 2 days in every 5 to claim back ( I was off ill for several months then used accrued leave to extend my phased return).

https://www.snct.org.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Part22Section5

Interesting - I wonder if I only accrued 25 due to when I had my leave as I didn’t stay off the whole year. I’m sure I ended up with 15/25 though! I’ll need to check.

I didn't get paid for the holidays when I was a teacher in the same way I don't get paid for nights now I work a normal 40 hour a week in an office job. The holidays aren't part of teachers' contracted working time.

Historically teachers used to be paid only during term time. At some point this was changed so they would get twelve equal monthly salary payments over the year, but the annual total pay didn't change. So, either a 25% pay cut was imposed on teachers when this happened or they still don't get paid for holidays.

@Saltired that's probably it - as far as I know each council decides for themselves which of the days over the year are 'annual leave' and which are school closure days so it's possibly to do with how those days fell over your maternity leave.

Must be - although now I’m questioning why I only got 15 days holiday to use!

I think the point is an LSA job has an advertised salary but it is then pro rata’d down to something utterly crap because the school holidays are actually unpaid ( statutory holidays only)
Teachers get the full advertised salary. So disingenuous to say they are unpaid.

Ok but even a “normal scale” teacher seems to be on £45k after 5 years

WHAT?!

They're really not @JackSheepskin . After five years (if they're lucky enough not to work for an academy, which can do what the hell it likes) a teacher will (hopefully) be on £35k. But as the progression through the scale is no longer automatic, even that can't be counted on. I retired four years ago, top of scale after 40 years teaching, with a special needs allowance, on £42k.