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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if it was France & French no one would care about a name change but because it’s Welsh…

442 replies

Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 13:18

Welsh is trending on Twitter because a lot of people don’t like the fact that the Brecon Beacons will revert to its Welsh name https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/brecon-beacons-relaunches-with-welsh-name-bannau-brycheiniog-as-picture-of-hope-for-future

People also kicked off when Snowdon also reverted to its Welsh name Yr Wyddfa

Aibu to really not understand the issue. I am Welsh and a Welsh speaker. It makes sense to me to call place names by their Welsh names and not by their anglicised versions if you want to protect a language and culture. Which we do.

Noone would bat an eyelid if in France their decided to only use French names. We drive in France and get by without English alternatives. So what exactly is the problem with Wales doing the same?

Brecon Beacons national park renamed Bannau Brycheiniog in Welsh language move

National park also ditches fiery logo as it embarks on plan to tackle climate and biodiversity crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/brecon-beacons-relaunches-with-welsh-name-bannau-brycheiniog-as-picture-of-hope-for-future

OP posts:
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6
feellikeanalien · 17/04/2023 14:32

It's up to the Welsh what they want to call it but I would imagine most people outside Wales will probably still refer to the old names, at least for a while. Frankly if Nigel Farrage said the sky was blue I wouldn't listen to him.

Not the point of the post but I find Michael Sheen really irritating.

JudgeJ · 17/04/2023 14:33

mainsfed · 17/04/2023 13:50

How will you spell Turkey from now on, OP?

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I spell it Turkey and I'm having a chicken Kiev for dinner, whatever the spelling of the week maybe for that city.

Horrace · 17/04/2023 14:34

potniatheron · 17/04/2023 14:28

Horrace is Welsh and you have no right to police how a Welsh person chooses to talk about their country and language, unless of course you yourself are the Welshest of Welshy Welshness, and if you're not, then ca dy geg!

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Crickey. All I said is I don't speak Welsh as per the vast majority of the Welsh population, and those that do, also speak English. I'm sure I made no mention of culture.
I think 'letshaveablack' has lost the plot.
🤪

IcedPurple · 17/04/2023 14:35

Noone would bat an eyelid if in France their decided to only use French names. We drive in France and get by without English alternatives. So what exactly is the problem with Wales doing the same?

It doesn't bother me but an obvious difference is that French is the sole official language of France, whereas Wales is officially bilingual. I say 'officially' because the majority of Welsh people speak little or no Welsh. So it would be very odd if a geographical feature in France were to have anything other than a French name. Given that most Welsh people only speak English, the case for Welsh isn't as obvious here.

But like I say, it doesn't bother me.

UthredofBattenberg · 17/04/2023 14:35

It's a place in Wales, so makes perfect sense that it's name should be in Welsh. Not a big deal.

People will probably still call them Brecon beacons and Snowdon 'cause that's what everyone is used to, but it's in Wales..so I'd expect the signs etc to be in Welsh, I'm capable enough to learn the new name and follow road signs that state the Welsh name.

JunkIsland · 17/04/2023 14:36

Not aware that Turks are asking for English speakers to change the name of their country in English though @piratypotato? Am basing my experience on having studied Turkish in the past.

Kyiv/Kiev is quite clearly about political sensitivity between the use of Russian v Ukrainian. Again, no link to Turkey and Turkish that I’m aware of.

Original poster
Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:36

@Horrace no, you actually said ‘what culture are you talking about’ and as someone else had pointed out, wales has a rich and diverse cultural life.

OP posts:
potniatheron · 17/04/2023 14:36

Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:32

@potniatheron did you have to Google how to swear at me in Welsh?!

No, because I grew up in South Wales and was a fluent Welsh speaker (not so much since I moved to England). As you would know if you'd bothered to read this full thread, or indeed encountered my many other posts throughout my time on Mumsnet, where I variously discuss the Welsh language, Welsh deindustrialisation, and Welsh mythology.

Furthermore, 'ca dy geg' is not swearing, but is a playful if cheeky formulation of 'shut up, you!" But I presume you're also welsh, so you already know this?

Horrace · 17/04/2023 14:36

foxandbee · 17/04/2023 14:32

Hmm. I live in an English speaking part of Wales and am a similar age to you. Welsh was taught in state schools and was compulsory up until O level, so surprised it wasn't where you are.

Nowadays lots of younger people in my area are bi-lingual as we have Welsh medium schools. I think it is wonderful and really regret not paying more attention to my Welsh classes.

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I'm very south Wales. Closer to Bristol. Welsh is taught in our schools now but not in my day. We did French, German and Latin for the very clever. I learnt Spanish after school

Inthesamesinkingboat · 17/04/2023 14:37

I think it’s fine as long as you use both names so people who haven’t kept up with the naming conventions know what is being referred to. I.e if the news is reporting on an incident in Yr Wyddfa they refer to Snowdon as well so it can be easily understood.

CrapBucket · 17/04/2023 14:37

Good for Wales!

Farage is irrelevant

Hopefully good for tourism though I do feel sorry for any local businesses named after Brecon Beacons who now need to decide whether to change their name to fit with the new era or keep their existing name/website/social media etc.

potniatheron · 17/04/2023 14:38

Horrace · 17/04/2023 14:34

Crickey. All I said is I don't speak Welsh as per the vast majority of the Welsh population, and those that do, also speak English. I'm sure I made no mention of culture.
I think 'letshaveablack' has lost the plot.
🤪

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Yup 😂

GogLais · 17/04/2023 14:38

@limp, Snowdon not Snowden
@Arapawa , the name of the mountain hasn't been changed. Like with Bannau Brycheiniog/Brecon Beacons it had a Welsh name and an English name, and they are now only using the Welsh one.

chocolatemademefat · 17/04/2023 14:38

I don’t know anyone who cares.

GogLais · 17/04/2023 14:39

@potniatheron , it's 'Cau dy geg' (Shut your mouth) and it's rude but not swearing.

Original poster
Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:41

@GogLais it was always considered pretty rude & an insult when I was growing up.

OP posts:
SnowyGiveAway · 17/04/2023 14:42

sandberry · 17/04/2023 14:00

The idea that the majority of Welsh people don’t speak Welsh needs to disappear. It won’t be true for much longer. I moved to Wales two years ago, my child has learned some Welsh words in a very English speaking nursery, I can read some Welsh words from just day to day living,
Every babysitter I’ve used (all under 25) is a fluent Welsh speaker. Of the kids mine play with, more than half speak Welsh despite not coming from Welsh as first language families. We live in a very English part of Wales and a lot of the people we know have like us come from England, they’re all actively pursuing Welsh lessons and want their kids to speak Welsh.

The Welsh language revival is a success story. Makes sense to change the names of Welsh places to Welsh names, in a few decades nobody will remember any different.

Fi hefyd

RedHelenB · 17/04/2023 14:42

Coffeeandbourbons · 17/04/2023 13:28

But the majority of Welsh people don’t speak Welsh?

Hence the need for these changes

BotterMon · 17/04/2023 14:42

No issue with it at all. Farage just has to justify his existence by getting wound up about SFA and make sure he's in the meedja

Jourdain11 · 17/04/2023 14:44

IcedPurple · 17/04/2023 14:35

Noone would bat an eyelid if in France their decided to only use French names. We drive in France and get by without English alternatives. So what exactly is the problem with Wales doing the same?

It doesn't bother me but an obvious difference is that French is the sole official language of France, whereas Wales is officially bilingual. I say 'officially' because the majority of Welsh people speak little or no Welsh. So it would be very odd if a geographical feature in France were to have anything other than a French name. Given that most Welsh people only speak English, the case for Welsh isn't as obvious here.

But like I say, it doesn't bother me.

Yeah, I was a bit bemused by that too. It's a weird comparison!

GogLais · 17/04/2023 14:46

Okunevo · 17/04/2023 13:56

I have trouble with spoken language without seeing it written down in phonetics I understand (I need subtitles). I would try to learn the Welsh names but need to find the pronunciation written down first. Just hearing it doesn't work for me.

Bannau Brycheiniog - it has sounds that you don't get in English but as an approximation:
BAN-Eye Bruch (ch like in scottish 'loch')-AYN-yog (like in yogurt)

AlmostAJillSandwich · 17/04/2023 14:46

Welsh is a particularly difficult language to read and pronounce because of the heavy vowel use and double letters. It makes a lot more sense to use the english names, since english is so widely spoken in so many countries, including i believe the actual main language in wales.

potniatheron · 17/04/2023 14:46

Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:41

@GogLais it was always considered pretty rude & an insult when I was growing up.

Not swearing tho is it

You seem to have a problem with misinterpreting people's words. You said Horrace was dismissing her own culture, which she wasn't, and you said I was swearing, which I wasn't.

You seem to find it inconceivable that there are welsh speakers on this thread who - heavens! - dare to see the world slightly differently from you, and yet you still haven't mentioned what part of Wales you're from and how fluent you are, since you seem determined to police the welshness of others on this thread.

EsmeSusanOgg · 17/04/2023 14:47

SnowyGiveAway · 17/04/2023 14:42

Fi hefyd

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I don't know about this. My son is in an English medium primary school... And they're still teaching Welsh as badly as they did when I was in the school in the 80s and 90s (lot of North Walian dialect in a South Wales school... An over focus on being more formal in conversation than people actually are eg lots of rydws instead of dw'in).

That said, this is really just a rebrand of a National Park Authority. It's not like it hasn't been called this for a while (in Welsh). And likely saves money on signage etc. as you're just using the one set of branding. People are still likely to call them the Brecon Beacons, because that is still the name of the mountain range in English. Same as people still say Snowdon. I'm not sure where all the fuss is coming from.

potniatheron · 17/04/2023 14:47

AlmostAJillSandwich · 17/04/2023 14:46

Welsh is a particularly difficult language to read and pronounce because of the heavy vowel use and double letters. It makes a lot more sense to use the english names, since english is so widely spoken in so many countries, including i believe the actual main language in wales.

See I'd disagree here because it's phonetic so once you've got your head around the seven vowels and the double consonants and how all the letters are pronounced, you can pretty much read it aloud exactly as it's written, unlike say French or English.