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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if it was France & French no one would care about a name change but because it’s Welsh…

442 replies

Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 13:18

Welsh is trending on Twitter because a lot of people don’t like the fact that the Brecon Beacons will revert to its Welsh name https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/brecon-beacons-relaunches-with-welsh-name-bannau-brycheiniog-as-picture-of-hope-for-future

People also kicked off when Snowdon also reverted to its Welsh name Yr Wyddfa

Aibu to really not understand the issue. I am Welsh and a Welsh speaker. It makes sense to me to call place names by their Welsh names and not by their anglicised versions if you want to protect a language and culture. Which we do.

Noone would bat an eyelid if in France their decided to only use French names. We drive in France and get by without English alternatives. So what exactly is the problem with Wales doing the same?

Brecon Beacons national park renamed Bannau Brycheiniog in Welsh language move

National park also ditches fiery logo as it embarks on plan to tackle climate and biodiversity crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/brecon-beacons-relaunches-with-welsh-name-bannau-brycheiniog-as-picture-of-hope-for-future

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
OhWhatMerryHellIsThis · 17/04/2023 13:57

Oops, An Daingean, of course.

Horrace · 17/04/2023 13:58

Coffeeandbourbons · 17/04/2023 13:28

But the majority of Welsh people don’t speak Welsh?

Correct. Born and bred in Wales. Been here 51 years and can't speak, read or understand the Welsh language. I don't know anyone that can. I will continue to call them the Brecon Beacons. I can't imagine anyone taking offence at that.

Original poster
Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:00

@Horrace honestly it’s embarrassing that you take such a negative view on the culture of your own country

OP posts:
GreenClock · 17/04/2023 14:00

Makes sense to me, that Welsh places have Welsh names.

People who agree with Farage and read certain newspapers are always a bit ludicrous. I wouldn’t worry about them, OP. The vast majority on here, who are mainly quite well educated, think it’s a good idea or have no strong opinion.

sandberry · 17/04/2023 14:00

The idea that the majority of Welsh people don’t speak Welsh needs to disappear. It won’t be true for much longer. I moved to Wales two years ago, my child has learned some Welsh words in a very English speaking nursery, I can read some Welsh words from just day to day living,
Every babysitter I’ve used (all under 25) is a fluent Welsh speaker. Of the kids mine play with, more than half speak Welsh despite not coming from Welsh as first language families. We live in a very English part of Wales and a lot of the people we know have like us come from England, they’re all actively pursuing Welsh lessons and want their kids to speak Welsh.

The Welsh language revival is a success story. Makes sense to change the names of Welsh places to Welsh names, in a few decades nobody will remember any different.

breakingintopieces · 17/04/2023 14:01

To answer your original question, OP... A lot of people in the UK did the equivalent of GSCE French at school. Their French may be atrocious, but they could at least have a stab at pronouncing the name of somewhere in France. So deciding to rebrand a French location with a French name wouldn't cause as much head-scratching.

How many people in the UK speak Welsh? Particularly outside of Wales? I'm not even going to ask how many outside of the UK speak Welsh.

The issue with 'renaming' something in Welsh is that no one will know how to pronounce it. And no one wants to sound like a twat. "Where are you going on holiday?" "Oh, I'm off to <mumbles>." "Sorry, didn't catch that." "<mumbles even more sheepishly>"

It also implies that it's for local people. Which is fine, but it's an odd choice if it's a tourist attraction and you want tourists to come to visit and spend money.

I think it would be different if it had always been known by its Welsh name - it then becomes a case of respecting local culture and tradition rather than trying to 'change' something to make it less welcoming.

Doesn't bother me. I'm not the hillwalking type, so I'm unlikely to ever visit anyway, regardless of what it's called.

Cymraescwtch · 17/04/2023 14:03

As long as no-one calls it 'The Brecons' that's fine with me (and I'm a fluent Welsh-speaker).

'The Brecons' really riles me!

Horrace · 17/04/2023 14:07

Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:00

@Horrace honestly it’s embarrassing that you take such a negative view on the culture of your own country

What culture is that you r referring to? I said I don't speak Welsh. I live in an English speaking county. Welsh wasn't taught in school. My parents weren't taught Welsh. As a kid I wanted to learn Spanish and French. Languages I felt would help me in life, and they have. I don't need Welsh. And I actually dislike the sound of the Welsh language but that's not the point.

PuttingDownRoots · 17/04/2023 14:07

I'm English.

I don't se how Bannau is anymore difficult to pronounce than many other British place names. If you can cope with Milngavie or Bicester you can cope with Bannau.

Neededanewuserhandle · 17/04/2023 14:07

Welsh is trending on Twitter because a lot of people don’t like the fact that the Brecon Beacons will revert to its Welsh name
It's not reverting is it?
It's getting a new Welsh name that is arguably actually less historic than the English version.
I don't mind either way - but it's not the same as Snowdon reverting to a previous Welsh name.

Original poster
Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:08

@Neededanewuserhandle its always had the Welsh name on the sign 🙄

OP posts:
IAmMeThisIsI · 17/04/2023 14:09

Welsh here too, OP. It doesn't bother or matter to me. If I'm going to Brecon (I live really close and to often), then I'll still just say "I'm off to Brecon on Sunday". It won't effect me in the slightest.

Original poster
Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:10

@Horrace your response is even more embarrassing and ignorant

OP posts:
Horrace · 17/04/2023 14:12

Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:10

@Horrace your response is even more embarrassing and ignorant

Why are you embarrassed

IAmMeThisIsI · 17/04/2023 14:12

Sorry I meant that I go often to Brecon. Typo.

KimberleyClark · 17/04/2023 14:12

Neededanewuserhandle · 17/04/2023 14:07

Welsh is trending on Twitter because a lot of people don’t like the fact that the Brecon Beacons will revert to its Welsh name
It's not reverting is it?
It's getting a new Welsh name that is arguably actually less historic than the English version.
I don't mind either way - but it's not the same as Snowdon reverting to a previous Welsh name.

Absolute rubbish. The name Brycheiniog after which the old county of Brycheiniog was named refers to a South Wales kingdom of the early Middle Ages. It is in no sense new.

Okunevo · 17/04/2023 14:12

PuttingDownRoots · 17/04/2023 14:07

I'm English.

I don't se how Bannau is anymore difficult to pronounce than many other British place names. If you can cope with Milngavie or Bicester you can cope with Bannau.

I don't know how to say Milngavie, is Bicester different from By-ses-ter? Bannau, Ban-now?

potniatheron · 17/04/2023 14:13

Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:10

@Horrace your response is even more embarrassing and ignorant

Are you...are you policing the way a Welsh person talks about their views on the Welsh language??

LOL.

hay5689 · 17/04/2023 14:13

sandberry · 17/04/2023 14:00

The idea that the majority of Welsh people don’t speak Welsh needs to disappear. It won’t be true for much longer. I moved to Wales two years ago, my child has learned some Welsh words in a very English speaking nursery, I can read some Welsh words from just day to day living,
Every babysitter I’ve used (all under 25) is a fluent Welsh speaker. Of the kids mine play with, more than half speak Welsh despite not coming from Welsh as first language families. We live in a very English part of Wales and a lot of the people we know have like us come from England, they’re all actively pursuing Welsh lessons and want their kids to speak Welsh.

The Welsh language revival is a success story. Makes sense to change the names of Welsh places to Welsh names, in a few decades nobody will remember any different.

I can understand a few Welsh words from my Welsh lessons in school but that's not enough to say I can speak it. I live in the valleys, work in Cardiff and the huge majority of people don't speak Welsh so I think it's fair of the person who said most Welsh people don't speak the language because it's true. There's a huge difference between knowing a few words and actually being able to hold a conversation or write something in the language.

On the subject of the name change, I think it will take a few generations before Brecon Beacons gets dropped, people still say the Severn Bridge and Millennium Stadium 🤷‍♀️

Original poster
Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:14

@Horrace no, you should be embarrassed that you are saying that wales has no cultural life. Do you go to Spain & hang out in an English pub? The fact that you make no effort to understand the cultural life, literature, language etc of your country of birth

OP posts:
greenspaces4peace · 17/04/2023 14:14

Similar in Canada to some places reverting to their First Nations name and spelling. Most use the older anglophone version until they learn the new name’s pronunciation and spelling (some letters are not in our alphabet). I appreciate the change will take time but it’s the right thing.

IAmMeThisIsI · 17/04/2023 14:15

Okunevo · 17/04/2023 14:12

I don't know how to say Milngavie, is Bicester different from By-ses-ter? Bannau, Ban-now?

Show quote history

Most of that's correct yeah. But with Bannau, it can be Ban-oo or Ban-ow. Most Welsh words are just phonetic. If you learn the au's and the Ll's etc you'll have it down.

Coffeeandbourbons · 17/04/2023 14:16

Sort of on the same note but a part of Mt Everest has a Welsh name I believe it’s the Cwm… perhaps time for a change back to Nepalese 🤔 how it ended up with that name
im not sure

Original poster
Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:16

@potniatheron i am pointing out that it sounds extremely ignorant to state that the country of your birth has no cultural life

OP posts:
Horrace · 17/04/2023 14:17

Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 14:14

@Horrace no, you should be embarrassed that you are saying that wales has no cultural life. Do you go to Spain & hang out in an English pub? The fact that you make no effort to understand the cultural life, literature, language etc of your country of birth

I think you are the ignoramus. Read my posts again