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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that if it was France & French no one would care about a name change but because it’s Welsh…

442 replies

Letshaveablackcelebration2022 · 17/04/2023 13:18

Welsh is trending on Twitter because a lot of people don’t like the fact that the Brecon Beacons will revert to its Welsh name https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/brecon-beacons-relaunches-with-welsh-name-bannau-brycheiniog-as-picture-of-hope-for-future

People also kicked off when Snowdon also reverted to its Welsh name Yr Wyddfa

Aibu to really not understand the issue. I am Welsh and a Welsh speaker. It makes sense to me to call place names by their Welsh names and not by their anglicised versions if you want to protect a language and culture. Which we do.

Noone would bat an eyelid if in France their decided to only use French names. We drive in France and get by without English alternatives. So what exactly is the problem with Wales doing the same?

Brecon Beacons national park renamed Bannau Brycheiniog in Welsh language move

National park also ditches fiery logo as it embarks on plan to tackle climate and biodiversity crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/brecon-beacons-relaunches-with-welsh-name-bannau-brycheiniog-as-picture-of-hope-for-future

OP posts:
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Horrace · 20/04/2023 11:52

Sodie · 20/04/2023 07:52

I think it's brilliant that it has changed it means so much to the welsh who are passionate about language.

I'm from Pembrokeshire (below the landsker line) and we don't class our family as welsh at all we are british, we don't even have a welsh accent. But most people I know are very patriotic and proud of being welsh despite not speaking the language. I actually know nobody at all who can speak welsh. Which is why it is important for the welsh language to be more incorporated into every day life and for people to have adequate teaching of it from a young age.

Same here. I'm supposed to be Welsh but class myself as British. I describe myself as British as do all my family despite all being born and living in Wales. We ate but a small island

Horrace · 20/04/2023 11:53

Horrace · 20/04/2023 11:52

Same here. I'm supposed to be Welsh but class myself as British. I describe myself as British as do all my family despite all being born and living in Wales. We ate but a small island

We didn't eat a small island. We are a small island 🤣

KimberleyClark · 20/04/2023 11:59

Horrace · 20/04/2023 11:52

Same here. I'm supposed to be Welsh but class myself as British. I describe myself as British as do all my family despite all being born and living in Wales. We ate but a small island

I’m Welsh and British. Why do you not want to be Welsh even though you are?

Horrace · 20/04/2023 12:19

KimberleyClark · 20/04/2023 11:59

I’m Welsh and British. Why do you not want to be Welsh even though you are?

It's not about what I want. It's just how I feel.

GogLais · 20/04/2023 14:06

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 20/04/2023 05:46

No one wants solely English names in Wales but over the last few years there has been a move to change places that have been called a certain name for decades and change it to a a Welsh version that no one locally wants or has ever heard being used. I appreciate the history but the history of Wales is being distorted for political gain.

Where exactly?

foxandbee · 20/04/2023 14:32

GogLais · 20/04/2023 14:06

Where exactly?

It is down to Michael Sheen apparantly.

Abhannmor · 20/04/2023 18:01

DdraigGoch · 20/04/2023 11:06

@Abhannmor Vaynol Arms in Nant Peris? I've never been inside as the Padarn Lake and The Heights were more convenient for where I lived. Base of Llanberis Mountain Rescue so you couldn't be in a better place for asking directions.

I'm glad to see someone disparage the trope of "I walked into a pub and they all switched to speaking Welsh"

That's the one I think. Wondered if it would still be there tbh , so many pubs closing now.

A previous poster said nobody in Pembrokeshire speaks Welsh. I was walking on the cliff tops a few years ago and a man passing me said ' Prynhawn Da'. I just nodded foolishly and repeated it to a Welsh friend later. Good Afternoon.

In general that county is anglophone. I did have two friends from Fishguard who were native speakers though.

KimberleyClark · 20/04/2023 18:06

There are some 32,000 Welsh speakers in Pembrokeshire, mostly in the northern half.

Sodie · 20/04/2023 21:55

If you read what I put (which was all very supportive of the changes and the welsh language). I actually said that I personally don't know anyone who can speak Welsh in my part of Pembrokeshire. Not that nobody can speak Welsh in Pembrokeshire. By this I mean fluently speak Welsh.

MagpieSong · 21/04/2023 22:22

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 18/04/2023 08:08

It was bi lingual in a bi lingual country though now solely in Welsh which is unacceptable as many people in Wales have spoken English since Norman times depending on where you live. This creation of all Welsh people wanting everything in Welsh is not true. Just the loudest voices, it is unhealthy nationalism. Nationalism leads to fascism.

Sorry, but this isn’t strictly true. I’m a massive leftie and not Welsh but English, however, I also love language and think the loss of a nation’s language is sad. Perhaps being adopted makes me more sensitive to historical links and ancestry, but I’d find an entire wipe out very depressing. In my eyes, you can admit that your nation forms part of your cultural identity without being nationalistic - it doesn’t make one better than another, it simply is slightly different. Fortunately, the area I live in within Wales has very high Welsh speaking levels and my children will both have the benefit of being bilingual (Welsh speaking education), which is lovely. The Welsh language has nurtured a love of learning languages in my son, which I’m very grateful for. You don’t have to be a Nationalist to appreciate languages. I also don’t feel it can be argued against without blacking out my area because for lots here Welsh is a first language (you hear plenty of mums talking to children in only Welsh) and so even if the majority of the country do not speak it (though many wish to), it does areas like mine a disservice to act as if it’s a dead language being harped after by flag waving lunatics.

Also, Wales has the highest poverty levels in the UK alongside issues with unemployment. It isn’t a shock that this is one of the reasons that there ARE issues with nationalism here - however, retaining a language is not one of those issues. Brexit being voted for, on the other hand, was more related to this.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 21/04/2023 23:06

I am not talking about erasing Welsh. What I am saying is where English is predominantly spoken in Wales and has been for a long time, asking people to now refer to villages, places, roads etc in Welsh. Also where there is little demand, creating Welsh speaking schools. Previously everyone was happy with Welsh/English streams, now schools have to be separate. It is reverse oppression and not healthy or balanced.

MagpieSong · 22/04/2023 10:05

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 21/04/2023 23:06

I am not talking about erasing Welsh. What I am saying is where English is predominantly spoken in Wales and has been for a long time, asking people to now refer to villages, places, roads etc in Welsh. Also where there is little demand, creating Welsh speaking schools. Previously everyone was happy with Welsh/English streams, now schools have to be separate. It is reverse oppression and not healthy or balanced.

Do you live in Wales? It’s just that hasn’t been my experience at all. There isn’t pressure to speak Welsh - though if you move to a Welsh speaking area then the local village school tends to be Welsh speaking. All signs are bilingual, including road markings, all letters are sent with both English and Welsh, all phone calls you can choose Welsh or English. They’ve included it as an option, they’re not ramming it down throats. Equally, everyone I’ve spoken to about it in and outside my village (we are close enough to towns and cities to visit regularly) is positive about the inclusion. However, they aren’t saying everyone must speak it, just that it’s lovely to see it included and have that option. I don’t really see the issue, especially when it’s positive for the brain to learn a second language young. There’s plenty of English schools to choose from if that family wants, but it’s not about oppression, it’s about retaining a language. My point is that particularly in areas that are Welsh speaking, to not support that within business, education, medicine etc. is strange and pointless.

Im pretty sure it was the 19th Century when Welsh in education was discouraged, however, many still spoke Welsh at home. Due to industrialisation, children were seen as having a higher chance of employment when they reached adulthood should they speak English. It carried on falling to the 1960s and then some began to see the sadness in losing the language and trying to promote it through radio in the 1970s and tv in the 1980s, so it’s a much more modern history than all this talk of Romans from pp. Areas like the area I live in have spoken the whole time at home, so reintroducing Welsh schools etc makes perfect sense. There’s no oppression, just access to a language that has existed for centuries and continued to be highly spoken in some areas to this day.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 22/04/2023 13:38

Horrace · 18/04/2023 17:01

Nationalism is all a bit odd anyway. I kind of get. It's good to take some pride in where you live in order to take care of your surroundings and fellows. But pride is something I associate with personal achievement. To say you feel proud to be of a certain nationality makes little sense. It's chance we were born where we were born.
I prefer to say that I'm glad I was born in the UK rather than Syria for example.
Strong Nationalism has a tendency to incite hateful attitudes
But I get the sentiment.

I couldn't agree more, Horrace

Horrace · 25/04/2023 21:31

Sturnip · 25/04/2023 18:07

I see the Mail are going in hard on Anglogeddon:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11999375/English-place-names-BANNED-Wales-bid-stop-use-culturally-oppressive-names.html

(sorry to link but they’re the only ones covering the pretty modest petition).

The comments linked to the article are most entertaining

BitOutOfPractice · 25/04/2023 21:32

YABU because you are conflating Farage and his cohort with “everyone”. Nobody else cares. Honestly, they don’t.

Sturnip · 25/04/2023 23:04

BitOutOfPractice · 25/04/2023 21:32

YABU because you are conflating Farage and his cohort with “everyone”. Nobody else cares. Honestly, they don’t.

There are certainly a few people in this thread that seem to…

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