To think that if it was France & French no one would care about a name change but because it’s Welsh…

[Letshaveablackcelebration2022]

Welsh is trending on Twitter because a lot of people don’t like the fact that the Brecon Beacons will revert to its Welsh name https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/brecon-beacons-relaunches-with-welsh-name-bannau-brycheiniog-as-picture-of-hope-for-future

People also kicked off when Snowdon also reverted to its Welsh name Yr Wyddfa

Aibu to really not understand the issue. I am Welsh and a Welsh speaker. It makes sense to me to call place names by their Welsh names and not by their anglicised versions if you want to protect a language and culture. Which we do.

Noone would bat an eyelid if in France their decided to only use French names. We drive in France and get by without English alternatives. So what exactly is the problem with Wales doing the same?

They only speak it during Welsh lesson, just as you did in your French lessons. Everything else is in English. Unless you attend a Welsh medium school which are few and dar between. At least where I live in South Wales.

Yes, your second para nails it. I learned Welsh as a second language in school but, in the area of Wales that I lived in, it was rare to hear it spoken, so you forget most of it pretty quickly.

At the Senedd and BBC? And by a member of the Gorsedd? I suspect not :)

I am curious as to where in South Wales Welsh schools are few and far between?
I’m sure you’re right but I would like to be aware of this area. In my area of South Wales they are everywhere.

Not who you are replying to, but Cardiff has a relatively small number of massively oversubscribed Welsh medium primary and secondary schools.

That said, quite a few English medium schools are also massively oversubscribed. We have fewer schools than in the 80s and 90s with a much bigger school-age population in many areas. The schools are much slower to be built than the new housing developments!

@GogLais is correct. “Sut” is only really technically pronounced “Sit” if you’re being formal. “Shwd” is a colloquialism but perfectly accepted. Colloquialism is not looked down on as much in Welsh as in English, in fact it’s treasured, so I can see why the confusion has occurred.

Derailment alert

In a word, Westminster.

Since 2014, Scotland has elected a government who's core message is independence and key manifes pledge is to hold another referendum 5 times (3 UK and 2 Scottish elections).

Yet we've never had another referendum cause Westminster say no. Wales could try electing a pro independence government but they'll still need England's say so to hold a vote to leave.

I know unionists really struggle with this cause "will of the people" and all that (but only when it suits you of course).

When my kids were in school I think there was one primary school outside of town which would have been 2 bus rides away for my wee ones. I've just googled and looks like there are now 3 within the town but in the roughest areas so I wouldn't have sent mine there. A secondary school opened somewhere local in 2016. Again, too late for mine. Not sure of the address as its in Welsh 🤣

I work at a Welsh school in Cardiff - there are 3 Welsh secondary schools and a new dual entry one opening in September. 17 primaries. I don’t think this is so few in a relatively small city?

There are three Welsh medium schools in ar diff and the demand is there for a fourth.

Obviously it's up to the Welsh what they call it but brecon beacons has such a nice ring to it. What about all the things named after the Brecon Beacons will they also be changing their name.
Is it just me or does making things all Welsh make for greater segregation and less diversity? Or is that what they want.

We had the will of the people. We voted no.

The SNP are corrupt and have done no end of damage. Support for independence has declined rapidly. It's over. For the time being anyway.

I just checked and the only secondary Welsh in my city which is relatively new, is under subscribed. Odd considering the amount of Welsh people wanted to speak Welsh. This is according to the Welsh gov site.

@Stellaroses , Thanks. I can't understand why anyone would teach someone that Sut was pronounced like should. I can accept that some might say it that way though.
'Shw'mai' and 'Su'mai' are both fine, but if I was being more formal, I'd say Sut ydych chi? or Sut wyt ti?
I'd find it strange if a 'gog' addressed me with a 'Shw'mai?, or a 'hwntw' with a 'Su'mai?'

It's not that small a city. According to Census 2021 the population was 362,400.

For years there was just Glantaf for secondary education. In terms of primary schools, I know of 6 different sets of parents with children who lived virtually on top of the Welsh medium primary school who did not get places for their reception aged children. Especially an issue in Whitchurch.

I am not Welsh. My ex partner was a Welsh speaker but fluent in English. I tried to learn some Welsh and found it very challenging,even thought I speak French well and Spanish to GCSE level. Absolutely we should try to keep languages alive. The language of the country on signs first and foremost. In Englis in smaller font perhaps? Simply to.help tourism?

Well, I have been taught that. As have many others. And as you see, it is taught by Say Something in Welsh and other Welsh courses.

Just proves that demand for Welsh medium ed is growing, doesn’t it? Good job more are being planned and built.
Prior to the opening of the other 2 Welsh secondaries, pupils wanting WM ed travelled by bus to Gartholwg and Llanhari.

I assume @Horrace is referring to Newport. There they are aeveral years behind, with oupils travelling to Gwynllyw for their WM ed.

Why do people do this - say those that don't agree with them have no brain?

Welsh is an important part of the culture of the British Isles and the Welsh are rightly proud of it. But some Welsh people who do not speak Welsh do talk of layers of prejudice in Welsh society to the Welsh without Welsh. An example I know of being a large cultural organisation (very large) suddenly deciding its annual address should be given in Welsh. Many English people also work for this orgnaisation. The person next due to give the address was actaully born and brought up in Wales yards from the head quarters but is Welsh without Welsh. He was furious - said he was made to feel like he was not really Welsh in his own home town. The Brecon Beacons is not in a strong Welsh language area I believe.

The change is a political act on all kinds of levels so some will react politically.

I don't disagree with the change as a such but it is probably another example of political change being forced from above, of people in an arts or cultural orgnaisation doing the nanny knows best thing - was there any local campaign to change it with any indication of wide spread support for example?

Another factor pointing to this being a political act is this:

"Catherine Mealing-Jones, the chief executive of Brecon Beacons National Park, said: “We’re an environmental organisation. We’re trying to cut carbon and push to net zero. So, having a carbon burning beacon just isn’t a good look."

It is an incredible stupid justification and clearly the worst kind of virtue signalling. As though beacons anywhere in the UK have ever been a serious cause of climate issues or that they are anything other than occasional and historic. It just makes the management of the park look stupid.

As I say I think if (if??) there is local support why not change the name but I certainly don't think those complaining have 'no brain'. On a slightly side note I do think there is a strong argument for Welsh being taught in English schools - that would help people in England come away with the pronunciation at least and provide support for an important language.

Just a point of information here - Ireland isn't a part of the UK.

In 2014 we did. Haven't been allowed a say since despite electing a pro independence party at every election since. Is that not the "will of the people"?

Whether the SNP are corrupt is neither here nor there when if comes to independence. They happen to be the only party willing to stand for Scotland's right to self-determination so unfortunately we have little option on who to vote for. Oh any damage they have done pails into insignificance when compared to what the tories have done, unless you count paying teachers/nurses/public servants etc more than rUK damage?

But I guess we'll see where we stand come 24. Maybe Wales will join us and we can both escape from the collapsing union before it completely destroys us.

One of the main reasons the SNP have remained in power (apart from their coalition with the equally loathsome Greens) is that there isn’t another viable party to vote for. Labour capitulated, no one would vote for the tories in great numbers and the Lib Dems are an irrelevance but even then, more people voted for them combined than voted SNP in the last Scottish election. So, why should we have another indy ref when the majority of the electorate voted for unionist parties?

Apologies for derailing.

I don't have a problem with it.
But I would like to know how the names are pronounced!

Ban-eye Bruch-eye-nee-og

The ch is gutteral, like in loch.

I've not disputed the demand. I've actually said that demand outstrips available schools in many areas.

I've also said that until relatively recently, there were substantially fewer Welsh medium schools. If, until the last decade, there was one one Welsh medium secondary school in the capital city of Wales, I can well believe that other towns and cities have been less well served in terms of access to Welsh medium education.

To another poster, who said the new secondary Welsh medium school was undersubscribed in their areas, that is not unusual for any brand new school. It takes a few years - especially as secondary level - for demand to ramp up. It's better to assess demand for a secondary school once it has been established for over 10 years.

@EsmeSusanOgg , I am not familiar with the courses. When I have looked at any out of curiosity, I find that the colloquial language wouldn't make much sense to me. I'd need to see how it is structured.
I'd teach something like 'I am ...' is Yr ydwyf fi... but you might in conversation say or hear Rwyf i... or Dwi...
and 'I am not...' is 'Nid ydwyf fi ddim yn ... but in conversation Nid ydwi'n.. or Dwi ddim yn ...^
That might just be how my mind works though and I do speak a few languages.

@chaivanilla , Brecon Beacons was a made up name, but I agree that it has a nice ring to it, because of the alliteration. The name is pretty meaningless though.