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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think I inadvertently disrespected someone's religion

157 replies

LondonElle · 15/04/2023 13:39

Was out shopping today with a Friend and our children and noticed the gentleman in front of me car keys fall out of his pocket and him and his wife didn't notice, the queue was moving fast and I didn't want them being stepped on or lost so I tried to get his attention, I said excuse me gently at first and then louder but I couldn't attract him or his wife's attention, so I lightly tapped him on the shoulder and pointed to they keys he had dropped. He looked aghast and shouted at me... I was quite taken aback he then grabbed the keys but looked fuming with me.
My friend who I was with said that it may be because of his religion, (his wife was dressed in a burka and had her face covered) and the fact that as a female I shouldn't have touched him... I genuinely didn't know this was the case and didn't know how else to have caught his attention as they were about to walk off prior to me pointing out the keys... I feel a bit awful now like I disrespected someone's religion inadvertently. Am I really that much or an ignorant person?

OP posts:
maddening · 15/04/2023 16:56

mainsfed · 15/04/2023 16:43

Except multiple Muslims have explained upthread that Islam does not “require him to be disrespectful to a person trying to engage in a positive social interaction” Hmm

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If his interpretation of his religion differs though it may to him (rightly or wrongly) - how a person interprets their religious texts is how we have various iterations of each religion, so mainstream may not believe that but some may.

Personally I have no time for sexism even if it stems from a belief or ideology.

Original poster
LondonElle · 15/04/2023 16:57

SupplyIsLimited · 15/04/2023 16:52

There's nothing disrespectful about what you did, and if he's that sensitive to the occasional completely non-sexual touch of a female, he's in for a difficult time of it! He's the problem here, acting like a psycho just because someone tapped him on the shoulder to save him extra effort later on. (Assuming this is all true...)

Definitely true

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 15/04/2023 16:58

peechie · 15/04/2023 16:31

If this was quoted from me, well done on removing the other two paragraphs I wrote, where is aid 99% of religious people don't act like this and that it's HIS problem👍

Why do people do this? I'm saying the same thing as you in a different way

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I was quoting @Justalittlebitduckling. I am not sure if that is you posting under a different user name but the post I was quoting was definitely not saying the same thing as me.

As it happens, I wasn't particularly criticising that individual poster, but rather the general lack of logic on this thread.

mainsfed · 15/04/2023 17:07

maddening · 15/04/2023 16:56

If his interpretation of his religion differs though it may to him (rightly or wrongly) - how a person interprets their religious texts is how we have various iterations of each religion, so mainstream may not believe that but some may.

Personally I have no time for sexism even if it stems from a belief or ideology.

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There’s nothing to misinterpret. His religious text did not tell him to shout at someone trying to help him.

You don’t even know if he was sexist, he may be a dick to men and women.

Stop assuming.

CoffeeCantata · 15/04/2023 17:07

It's true that people pick on Christian's but everyone here agrees that this guy is a dick so your point doesn't follow

Peechie - Yes, I agree that there is a consensus here about the irrelevance of any religious beliefs to this man's rudeness. I'm sorry - my point was more a general one which I've noticed a lot, but particularly on a couple of threads I read over the Easter weekend. It's not directly connected to the OP's story, but was prompted by her (reasonable) concern that she'd offended someone's religion. I'm sorry if that wasn't very clear.

Just to explain: my general point is that (speaking as an atheist) I do notice that many posters on MN are really quite rude about Christians in a way they wouldn't be about other religions. This does not mean I think they should be!! Though I don't follow a religion, I strongly believe in respecting people's honestly-held religious beliefs, and I'm absolutely not advocating disrespecting any community - only pointing out that some posters, I think, are cowardly in that they take their aggressive anti-religious views out on followers of the Christian religion where they probably would be less willing to say anything about other religions. And, as I think I said previously (I hope) to talk about Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs etc as if they are all cracked out of a mold and not nuanced individuals is ridiculous. But I emphasise that my comments were really based on some threads I was reading over the Easter weekend, not this one. I'm with the consensus on this one!

Obki: I'm sorry - I can't understand the point you are making, but then i probably didn't make mine very well either! Hope the above will clarify things a bit.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/04/2023 17:11

Goodoccasionallypoor · 15/04/2023 15:51

His reaction would not be a standard or socially acceptable response to any Muslim I know.

I think this would be considered more of an awkward faux pas but the intention was kind, and my understanding of Islam is that the intention behind actions is very important.

He just sounds like a rude and aggressive man who would find any excuse to behave this way.

Very well put, Goodoccasionallypoor

I'm another who's recruited hundreds of muslims, and though I'm aware of the cultural resistance to touching unrelated women I've encountered hardly any who'd be as rude as this about it

Try not to let it worry you too much though, OP - absolutely every community contains a few who are less than pleasant, and it was just your misfortune to meet one of them

maddening · 15/04/2023 17:16

mainsfed · 15/04/2023 17:07

There’s nothing to misinterpret. His religious text did not tell him to shout at someone trying to help him.

You don’t even know if he was sexist, he may be a dick to men and women.

Stop assuming.

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A - All religions have denominations that interpret the same religious texts differently - lots of ideologies have followers that range in how fervent their faith is.

B - I was not commenting on the op or assuming anything- I was suggesting that it is incorrect to say that there is no way that this man's actions were driven by his religion as most people of a certain religion say that they do not interpret their religious texts that way - they are making assumptions in doing so

C - of course it may be that he is a fucking dick - it is highly likely

but yes he may be or may not be sexist - however many religions are sexist imo so this was the.driver of that part of my comment as I was responding to a comment in respect of religion.

SparklyBlackKitten · 15/04/2023 17:17

He sounds like a insert insult here
Wouldnt give it 5 seconds of my mental time.
You know you aren't unreasonable

Elle200 · 15/04/2023 17:18

You're a good person OP, he, on the other hand is a woman hating knob.

FannyPhart · 15/04/2023 17:44

LondonElle · 15/04/2023 13:46

He looked at me and raised his voice directly at me saying no.

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Saying 'no' what? No they aren't my keys? No don't touch me? That's the bit that makes no sense.

ArianahX · 15/04/2023 17:59

His bad reaction probably had nothing to do with his religion... there are so many possibilities; and it could be any of the following or more, or a combination:

He could just have been in a grumpy mood or felt very stressed.

He could have hated going shopping then dropping his keys added to the annoyance.

He could have received bad news earlier.

He could really dislike being touched by any stranger for MH or similar reasons eg past trauma, sensory issues, OCD, or early dementia, could have traits of or suffer with BPD or other personality disorder.

He could be a misogynist arsehole regardless of religion like men the world over and resent a woman telling him his keys were on the floor.

Or he could just really really hate it when strange people touch him!!

sadienurse2 · 15/04/2023 18:05

I'm a Muslim and don't have physical contact with unrelated males. Do not give this any headspace OP, he was a jerk. The completely normal response would be to profusely thank you.

biscuiteer · 15/04/2023 18:25

Imagine the man's reaction anywhere in the world.
If you were on the end of it, you'd be surprised that someone shouted / was rude to you, wherever you were and whoever it was and whoever you were. That would be very unpleasant for anyone who was trying to be helpful.

mainsfed · 15/04/2023 18:29

maddening · 15/04/2023 17:16

A - All religions have denominations that interpret the same religious texts differently - lots of ideologies have followers that range in how fervent their faith is.

B - I was not commenting on the op or assuming anything- I was suggesting that it is incorrect to say that there is no way that this man's actions were driven by his religion as most people of a certain religion say that they do not interpret their religious texts that way - they are making assumptions in doing so

C - of course it may be that he is a fucking dick - it is highly likely

but yes he may be or may not be sexist - however many religions are sexist imo so this was the.driver of that part of my comment as I was responding to a comment in respect of religion.

Show quote history

You said ‘If his religion or philosophical belief require him to be disrespectful to a person trying to engage in a positive social interaction, then that aspect of his religion does not deserve respect or even consideration.’

There is nothing in Islam that requires, encourages or permits anyone to be disrespectful to someone trying to be helpful.

Your attempts to say he could interpret it that way are nonsensical because this concept just does not exist in Islam.

Have you actually done any research?

maddening · 15/04/2023 18:46

mainsfed · 15/04/2023 18:29

You said ‘If his religion or philosophical belief require him to be disrespectful to a person trying to engage in a positive social interaction, then that aspect of his religion does not deserve respect or even consideration.’

There is nothing in Islam that requires, encourages or permits anyone to be disrespectful to someone trying to be helpful.

Your attempts to say he could interpret it that way are nonsensical because this concept just does not exist in Islam.

Have you actually done any research?

Show quote history

I did not say that though, you have quoted someone else there.

maddening · 15/04/2023 18:48

And yes it is possible for different interpretations of Islam- eg different approaches to modesty, approaches in Iran and Afghanistan are very restrictive of women, women are killed for disobedience. This is not the approach elsewhere.

maddening · 15/04/2023 18:50

Also note several christian based cults that interpret the bible very differently to C of E, and there are many Christian denominations.

mainsfed · 15/04/2023 18:56

maddening · 15/04/2023 18:46

I did not say that though, you have quoted someone else there.

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I see that, but it’s the quote I challenged, so presumably you agree with it?

mainsfed · 15/04/2023 18:58

maddening · 15/04/2023 18:48

And yes it is possible for different interpretations of Islam- eg different approaches to modesty, approaches in Iran and Afghanistan are very restrictive of women, women are killed for disobedience. This is not the approach elsewhere.

That’s very vague. If you think his reaction has a basis in Islam, then you should provide the relevant scripture.

ALongHardWinter · 15/04/2023 19:04

He sounds rude. You were trying to help him!

JudgeRudy · 15/04/2023 19:06

LondonElle · 15/04/2023 13:46

He looked at me and raised his voice directly at me saying no.

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I'd view that as alarm rather than rude, similar to how you might tell a child to stop, if you thought they were about to run into the road.
It's Ramadan so a particularly 'holy' time where he's likely fasting and his beliefs will be all encompassing.

maddening · 15/04/2023 19:06

mainsfed · 15/04/2023 18:58

That’s very vague. If you think his reaction has a basis in Islam, then you should provide the relevant scripture.

Show quote history

That is not what I have said though is it.

Vivalaive · 15/04/2023 20:38

You did nothing wrong OP so don’t even question yourself. Religious or not, simply tapping someone on the shoulder to alert them they’ve dropped their car keys is not a crime!! He needs to get over himself.

ArianahX · 15/04/2023 20:53

It's Ramadan, maybe he's hangry! Jk.

(Disclaimer some of my Muslim colleagues get quite hangry when fasting despite trying not to as you are supposed to be spiritually full when fasting. This particular man may not even be fasting he may have donated money to charity instead).

But seriously I think you're overthinking this.
He probably just didn't like you touching him because it annoyed him & you're reading far too much into this! He should have said thanks when he saw the keys but he didn't because he was rude or grumpy.

PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog · 15/04/2023 21:03

Religion has nothing to do with it @LondonElle Religious teachings around touch always focus on intent. Your touch was to get his attention and to help him. No religious scholar or person would excuse the man's behaviour