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Original poster

To think I inadvertently disrespected someone's religion

157 replies

LondonElle · 15/04/2023 13:39

Was out shopping today with a Friend and our children and noticed the gentleman in front of me car keys fall out of his pocket and him and his wife didn't notice, the queue was moving fast and I didn't want them being stepped on or lost so I tried to get his attention, I said excuse me gently at first and then louder but I couldn't attract him or his wife's attention, so I lightly tapped him on the shoulder and pointed to they keys he had dropped. He looked aghast and shouted at me... I was quite taken aback he then grabbed the keys but looked fuming with me.
My friend who I was with said that it may be because of his religion, (his wife was dressed in a burka and had her face covered) and the fact that as a female I shouldn't have touched him... I genuinely didn't know this was the case and didn't know how else to have caught his attention as they were about to walk off prior to me pointing out the keys... I feel a bit awful now like I disrespected someone's religion inadvertently. Am I really that much or an ignorant person?

OP posts:
Singapore4 · 15/04/2023 14:29

FitAt50 · 15/04/2023 14:05

He sound like a very strict muslim. Islam forbids men from touching women apart from close relatives. Its also ramdam so he might have been over sensitive due that. Still a bit of a dick.

I bet he wouldn't of shouted at a man though.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 15/04/2023 14:35

Can I just point out that we don't actually know whether the man's reaction had anything to do with his religion at all? He didn't say anything about this, it was the OP's friend who suggested it.

I used to work with refugees. Many were from conservative Islamic societies, but a lot of them also suffered from extreme ptsd relating to that they had experienced in their home countries that made them react quite aggressively if anyone touched them unexpectedly - male or female. I'm not saying that this is what happened here, but the point is, we don't know.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/04/2023 14:42

His rudeness aside - and how are you to even know that he's a Muslim, and how strict he is (and what different branches of Islam believe) - if he himself wasn't wearing any kind of identifying clothing? - I really don't see how you can avoid ever being touched/brushed by another person in a busy public place, unless you go around inside a zorb ball at all times.

It's always going to be difficult going out in public when you have beliefs/rules that other people have to abide by, even if they are strangers and have no idea what you believe.

All he needed to say was "I'm sorry I reacted startled, as in my religion, unrelated men and women can't touch each other; but you weren't to know that - and thank you very much for preventing me from losing my keys". The first part is also a polite matter-of-fact 'get-out' for him, just in case any nearby fellow believers saw what happened and chose to see it as both a sexual/intimate tap on the shoulder and also one that he wanted/had any control over.

Original poster
LondonElle · 15/04/2023 14:43

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/04/2023 14:42

His rudeness aside - and how are you to even know that he's a Muslim, and how strict he is (and what different branches of Islam believe) - if he himself wasn't wearing any kind of identifying clothing? - I really don't see how you can avoid ever being touched/brushed by another person in a busy public place, unless you go around inside a zorb ball at all times.

It's always going to be difficult going out in public when you have beliefs/rules that other people have to abide by, even if they are strangers and have no idea what you believe.

All he needed to say was "I'm sorry I reacted startled, as in my religion, unrelated men and women can't touch each other; but you weren't to know that - and thank you very much for preventing me from losing my keys". The first part is also a polite matter-of-fact 'get-out' for him, just in case any nearby fellow believers saw what happened and chose to see it as both a sexual/intimate tap on the shoulder and also one that he wanted/had any control over.

He was wearing traditional Islamic clothing.

OP posts:
fruitbrewhaha · 15/04/2023 14:45

I wonder if he is worrying about being so fucking rude to you OP?

AndTheSurveySays · 15/04/2023 14:48

Why do you care?

diddl · 15/04/2023 14:54

How is "touching" defined though I wonder?

He was dressed & Op tapped his shoulder.

It's hardly like refusing to shake hands.

difficultdifficultlemondifficult · 15/04/2023 14:57

Religious or not. He was a complete and utter twat.

Being religious and having strict beliefs doesn't give you a free pass to treat people like shit.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 15/04/2023 15:01

His religion is irrelevant.

He was rude.

ThatFraggle · 15/04/2023 15:01

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/04/2023 14:42

His rudeness aside - and how are you to even know that he's a Muslim, and how strict he is (and what different branches of Islam believe) - if he himself wasn't wearing any kind of identifying clothing? - I really don't see how you can avoid ever being touched/brushed by another person in a busy public place, unless you go around inside a zorb ball at all times.

It's always going to be difficult going out in public when you have beliefs/rules that other people have to abide by, even if they are strangers and have no idea what you believe.

All he needed to say was "I'm sorry I reacted startled, as in my religion, unrelated men and women can't touch each other; but you weren't to know that - and thank you very much for preventing me from losing my keys". The first part is also a polite matter-of-fact 'get-out' for him, just in case any nearby fellow believers saw what happened and chose to see it as both a sexual/intimate tap on the shoulder and also one that he wanted/had any control over.

How was she to know he was a strict Muslim?

OP said he was with a woman in a burka.

A woman in a burka is only allowed out with a man who is her husband or relative.

So he is her husband or relative.

A woman in a burka signifies a family with strict beliefs. (She herself might not personally agree, but that's not given any consideration).

So he is her husband/relative in a family with strict interpretations of their religion.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/04/2023 15:03

He was wearing traditional Islamic clothing.

Ah, fair enough - you only mentioned what his wife was wearing in your OP. But even so, you can't expect strangers to know all of the requirements of your religion, and to rigorously abide by them in their dealings with you.

In hindsight, assuming that you wouldn't want to do anything as vindictive as just kick them down a drain, it would have been better to just take them to the local police station and then leave him with a full day's panic and hassle to try to relocate them and get them back again. I can only presume that that is what he would have preferred. Not that I know how you could actually prove ownership if it was just a standard-looking black key with a big car manufacturer's logo on it.

Obki · 15/04/2023 15:04

CoffeeCantata · 15/04/2023 14:00

Op - you did a kind thing and from what you write, I can't see how any reasonable person could have been offended, religious or not. As other pps have said, this man sounds awful and is probably just not a nice person.

But...and I'm really not getting at you here - thinking more of other threads and comments I've read recently - the title of your post highlighted (to me) the very unfair treatment of various religions on MN. Many posters here seem very happy to insult Christians...not so much other religions, which must be respected, it often seems.

And for clarity - I'm an atheist, but this inconsistent attitude jumps out at me.

What a strange post.

OP did a lovely thing but in what way has OP respected this man’s religion?

And why is everyone convinced he acted like a dick due to his religion? He was just a dick.

How many times have people posted a thread where they have tried to help someone who turned out to ungrateful, yet their religion was never a factor?

Stop holding Muslims to higher standards.

MsAdoraBelleDearheartVonLipwig · 15/04/2023 15:08

I think I’d have just apologised and said sorry, my mistake and let him walk off without the keys. But then I’m petty like that. 😄

Greenfinch7 · 15/04/2023 15:09

Why would you have any respect for a religion that told someone it's right to behave like that?

peechie · 15/04/2023 15:10

Agree with others that he's a prick. You weren't touching him sexually, is he a bit stupid? A (British?) woman taps him so that he doesn't lose his keys and he blows a fuse. Don't think anything more of it.

There's being religious, then there's being a prick to a stranger from a different culture, who isn't aware of your customs. Most religious people would be grateful even if touching althe opposite sex isn't the dome thing. This is 100% his problem.

Obki · 15/04/2023 15:11

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 15/04/2023 14:35

Can I just point out that we don't actually know whether the man's reaction had anything to do with his religion at all? He didn't say anything about this, it was the OP's friend who suggested it.

I used to work with refugees. Many were from conservative Islamic societies, but a lot of them also suffered from extreme ptsd relating to that they had experienced in their home countries that made them react quite aggressively if anyone touched them unexpectedly - male or female. I'm not saying that this is what happened here, but the point is, we don't know.

Example. So many assumptions about this man based on his appearance.

Yes, he should have been polite and thanked OP but he didn’t say anythimg about the touching.

Smallyellowbird · 15/04/2023 15:12

This reply has been deleted

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Obki · 15/04/2023 15:12

Greenfinch7 · 15/04/2023 15:09

Why would you have any respect for a religion that told someone it's right to behave like that?

What are you on about? Who said it’s right to behave like that?

Or are we now starting on good old Islamophobia?

peechie · 15/04/2023 15:12

CoffeeCantata · 15/04/2023 14:00

Op - you did a kind thing and from what you write, I can't see how any reasonable person could have been offended, religious or not. As other pps have said, this man sounds awful and is probably just not a nice person.

But...and I'm really not getting at you here - thinking more of other threads and comments I've read recently - the title of your post highlighted (to me) the very unfair treatment of various religions on MN. Many posters here seem very happy to insult Christians...not so much other religions, which must be respected, it often seems.

And for clarity - I'm an atheist, but this inconsistent attitude jumps out at me.

It's true that people pick on Christian's but everyone here agrees that this guy is a dick so your point doesn't follow

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 15/04/2023 15:12

How was she to know he was a strict Muslim?

OP said he was with a woman in a burka.

A woman in a burka is only allowed out with a man who is her husband or relative.

So he is her husband or relative.

A woman in a burka signifies a family with strict beliefs. (She herself might not personally agree, but that's not given any consideration).

So he is her husband/relative in a family with strict interpretations of their religion.

Which is all very well-known by other Muslims. There are a lot of basics about my own faith that people who do not share my faith don't have a clue about; nor would I expect them to know.

You cannot be angry at people for breaking rules that they don't actually know about - especially when they are rules that don't apply to most people/groups in your community/country.

Even if you do have a very good grounding of everything that a faith teaches centrally, you will often find a wide spectrum of 'interpretations' of it amongst followers.

Obki · 15/04/2023 15:13

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Reporting this shit now.

Terrible Islamophobia.

ExpatInSlavikLand · 15/04/2023 15:14

Sounds like a bit of a misogynistic git, IMO...

Superstorefan123 · 15/04/2023 15:14

Fairly common for Muslim men to not touch women they don’t know - I work extensively with people from the Middle East and would never offer a hand shake etc.

However - it is unavoidable to be touched lightly in public so his reaction was extreme and unpleasant. In my experience, when people break etiquette at work (offering a hand, touching hands whilst passing documents) people are very polite and would never react like this.

Singapore4 · 15/04/2023 15:15

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 15/04/2023 14:35

Can I just point out that we don't actually know whether the man's reaction had anything to do with his religion at all? He didn't say anything about this, it was the OP's friend who suggested it.

I used to work with refugees. Many were from conservative Islamic societies, but a lot of them also suffered from extreme ptsd relating to that they had experienced in their home countries that made them react quite aggressively if anyone touched them unexpectedly - male or female. I'm not saying that this is what happened here, but the point is, we don't know.

That's no excuse at all though. You have to have manners. It's all well and good you saying this but can you imagine picking someone's keys off the floor and someone shouting at you, can you?

Hats off to OP because I would of gave him a right piece of my mind even if he had come for trauma. Perhaps OP has come from from trauma. Let's not excuse someone raising your voice and being rude to a STRANGER.

Greenfinch7 · 15/04/2023 15:16

@Obki Islamophobia?? Nonsense- this OP is either genuinely worrying or else pretending that she worries she 'disrespected someone's religion' by getting his attention to help him with a problem.

I don't think any religion tells people not to help other people.
SO I am saying, if such a religion exists, why would the OP respect it?