Aibu to think most European countries don't have an Education class system or a class system at all?

[Stellanotbud]

Aibu to think that most European countries especially former communist countries don't have a class system or educational class system like the UK.. Most kids all go to state school & muddle along? Snobbery isn't a prevelant in most European countries & educational standards are high & mostly state run.

But surely you have friends outside of work?

I can think of anyone I know, that only has friends from work. Nope, no one.

Most people are in a choir, book club, dance class etc.

It is very hard to generalise and Ireland is not like England in some ways. Also people of various kinds either mix with lots of different people or don't.

Just about no one on our private estate here in London has a child at a state school - I can only think kof one family that has in 25 years and they recently moved here and are very fundamentalist Islam using the local school which allows primary school girls to cover their heads. That does not mean none of us know people who went to fee paying schools as we all have full lives and know loads of people.

It is a rare country in Europe that has no class system of any kind. France has very elite schools. Even if schooling is not a thing people in various cultures have hobbies or friends or titles etc which distinguish their class. There seem to be no nirvanas even amongst primitive tribes where there are no king pins. It is the nature of man that people seem to want to have the largest p enis gourd in the forest.

Yes it sadly seems to be human nature to want to say "I'm better than you".

Many humans can never seem to happy unless they have someone to say that they are better than.

I’m 50. I have friends (and a husband) from my undergraduate degree, but more from my postgrad degrees, and friends from all jobs, in the UK and Ireland (for which two postgraduate degrees are mandatory), also neighbours, parents from DS’s schools, various clubs, gym, friends of friends — all with degrees, most with more than one. Lots of my relatives and ILs don’t.

Why on earth don’t you speak to anyone you went to university with? Or know anyone who does speak to one one you went to university with?

Let's get the thread back on point.. OK so it's been established there's a class system in the majority of European countries but the markers are different & more subtle than the UK & Ireland.. Can anyone divulge the markers? Any country will do!

Having certain schools (certain 'grandes ecoles') on your c.v. makes a huge difference in France. I studied at one of them. Mine was attended by 5 French Presidents (including the current one), 5 French Prime Ministers (also including the current one) and Presidents/Prime Ministers of various other countries plus royalty and heads of various international organisations from the UN to the IMF.

I'm English but if I mention where I studied to a French person, the change in how they treat me is quite incredible. They don't quite throw themselves at my feet and bow but not far off. Quite bonkers to be frank.

Eh because I was 18 when I went to Uni. I'm 39 now.
That was 21 years ago. Why on earth would I keep in touch with them. Its so long ago. I might be Facebook friends with maybe one of them.

I had my first job after uni, when I was 22. I don't keep in touch with anyone from that job either.

People move on.

I just asked my boyfriend does he keep in touch with anyone from uni. He said "Jesus no, that was fecking ages ago".

Why would you be close friends with anyone you went to uni with. It's so long ago? And as I remember uni, a lot of us were in different classes half the time, no one was close at all, even when we were in Uni. We socialised at weekends at the time . We were teenagers. But once we left, everyone moved on

There was huge amounts of corruption though. My sister in law grew up in the USSR and was quite open about how bribes were used to get into the best universities, to pass exams, to get the best jobs...

Alain de Boton"s book "status Anxiety " explores this really well. And how the markers vary across space and time but how ingrained in human nature it is to arrive for them (and how empowering it is to recognising this and rise above it)

*strive. Not arrive!

Ireland differs from the UK in class terms in a lot of ways — having been a colony, the landed UC was an imported and largely unintegrated ‘Anglo-Irish’ class. Having not really had an industrial revolution, the country stayed agricultural and rural-based for longer, so one of the main class distinctions was between ‘strong’ and ‘small farmers’, and the landless — not so much of an urban middle class. Mass emigration from the mid-19thc on changed things, but no one is that many generations off the land. Class these days is more wealth than non-money class markers, but it’s a small enough country that where you’re from often places you.

Maybe it's a gaelscoil thing! My kids went to a gaelscoil and now a gaelcholaiste and we have the same experience. There was 1 traveller family that sent their children to the gaelscoil and that was it. But yeah the parents there were very focused on who has what. I know in the cholaiste the kids seem to be filtering themselves into groups but I don't really know many parents there as the kids that go there are from lots of different towns and villages as its one if the only gaelcholaiste in the county and there isn't the same parent participation as in primary. Dd is very aware of who the rich kids are though, she was only telling me the other day about a group of girls whose Snapchats are almost exclusively what they have bought complete with how much they cost

I'm 53. Two of my closest friends are friends I met at uni and we have remained close for over 3 decades. It's quite common. Cold English people eh? Who'd have thought it? 🙄

I'm English myself, in case you missed me saying that.

😂😂😂

I lived in a former communist country. You wouldn't believe the snobbery and made up class systems in general. There's just as much "which is the best primary school" and "no way are my kids going to x school" as it is here.

Even worse for high school, as admissions is/was grade based so there was definitely a status and reputation directly linked to what high school you went to.

X high school, clever ,well behaved,well mannered, decent citizen/human being, high expectations, decent family etc.

Y high school(especially if a trade one) stupid/not that clever, not a great family, probably a hoodlum, good for nothing etc.

I mean communism was just about as equal as The Animal Farm.

Some people will of still have friends from uni, some people will not have friends from uni, some people do just move on.

Some people are with the same class all the way through uni, other people are in bigger degrees where they rotate classes and are only in the same class with people once a week. All unis are different.

I was shocked at the woman who thought it was crazy not to have friends from uni. Many people move on after uni.

To me uni was not that important.

My jobs after uni were much more important to me

You said you were half English and left England at an early age. No idea why that's relevant but just so you can be aware that they teach reading comprehension in our cold brutal English education system.

I just feel like university was not important to me because I don't think it is a good system.

I feel like universities are more concerned about making money than people's education.

I have a friend who works as a student administration officer for a very prestigious college in Dublin.

To enter the college, students have to go through very rigorous interviews and have to have had very certain experience etc.

My friend told me that in the interview , the college asks the students all these questions. And then pretends to listen.

But she said there is corruption on the administration side. She said it doesn't matter at all which student meets the very strict entrance requirement, and which student doesn't meet the requirements

She said if the student has failed all the entrance requirements, but the student has the money to pay to enter the college, the student will be admitted.

Document will then be falsified by the college to pretend that the student did meet the requirements.

And this is a course for a very responsible job.

She said there is a lot of corruption that goes on behind the scenes in Universities. She said it is all about the university making money

Quite. I'm rather surprised at op's naivety about what communism was actually like.

Quite. I'm rather surprised at op's naivety about what communism was actually like.

I was born in England. I did actually go to school in England for part of my school years, so yes I'm well aware that they teach reading comprehension in the English education system, thanks!

Ahhh, don't say that about the Gaelcholáiste, my three will be heading to the one 30 mins away, was hoping it may be a bit more diverse but I doubt it! Entirely the dc's choice to go.. Our gaelscoil is very much keeping up & staying in with the Jones.. The local GAA Club also being the holy grail of "good, respectable families" & the who's who & the towns *big shots" as my mam calls them 🤣

That's another thing I don't like about rural Ireland. Sports has way too much power. Football is not just football. It has so much power in peoples social standing. The people who are seen as the best people in rural Ireland are those people who play GAA (football)

You are only seen as good, respectable and part of the community if you/your brother plays GAA football .

It is way too entwined into social standing.

When they talk about a man on the news in Ireland, they will say, "he was a good respectable man he played GAA" even if it is nothing to do at all with the news story.

For example, say two young men were killed in a road crash. If they cover this news story, On the news, without any doubt, they will say if the men played GAA. The news story will say "Sean Ryan, tragically killed in a car crash today, was an upstanding member in his community, he played GAA for his local community".

So if he didnt play GAA , he would have been less a member of his community?

Do you what I mean. I'm trying to think of a good example on the news. If they mention any man in any news story, they will always talk about if he was respectable or not, by if he played GAA or not.