Aibu to think most European countries don't have an Education class system or a class system at all?

[Stellanotbud]

Aibu to think that most European countries especially former communist countries don't have a class system or educational class system like the UK.. Most kids all go to state school & muddle along? Snobbery isn't a prevelant in most European countries & educational standards are high & mostly state run.

@Mooshamoo both myself and DH grew up in some of the roughest and most deprived corporation estates in Ireland . I've never experienced anything like what you've just described. People from my area have gone on to do all sorts of jobs and marry all sorts of people. No one is suggesting that some people aren't raging snobs and unfortunately some people are just nasty but that's everywhere.

I don't think the rest of the world is a utopian dream. Just addressing the fact that this country can be quite cold. There is probably only one other place in the world that I would want to live and I have no illusions about that issues in that country either. People in this country are far to quick to say such and such is a worse place to live, like that is some excuse. Its not a race to the bottom.

Mooshamoo lives in a 1950s Mave Binchy novel. Not in touch with reality!

English people are generally not keen on foreigners, that is true. Or at least working class English people aren't. That's due in large part to our government's habit of blaming inequality on foreigners, rather than redistributing wealth better.

Jazbay & Whump thank you for your interesting answers.

Minutewaltz Itis a huge and controversial theme. Basically, USSR was a huge social experiment. And different things came out of it. The 'old money' and old elites were destroyed, often brutally. But at the same time there was a huge programme making education available for everyone. From basic literacy for illiterate adults to higher education. In my family there are examples of both: family members who suffered from repressions as well as those who could receive education they wouldn't be able to access before revolution (from rural areas, a son of a tailor etc). The remnants of this still exist in society and education system. Take Stanislavsky for instance - he was from a very rich family, remained influential in Soviet times and the theater school still functions today. The same with STEM etc. As I said - there is inequality, of course, but the situation is very different compared to the UK.

Thank you Ranevskaya

@Minutewaltz this may interest you. It roughly corresponds to the nepotism/good old boy network. It’s Wikipedia, but provides a decent overview:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blat_(favors)

The point is that Ireland is a different country to the UK

Wow. You are so incredibly immature.

Did you somehow fail to notice that another woman came on here , and said that she experienced EXACY the same thing that I experienced in Ireland.

She wrote that "rich children only socialise with rich children in Ireland, " and "rich mothers only socialise with other rich mothers in Ireland".

Isn't it Strange how you managed to completely ignore what she said.

What is your response to what she said?

Thank you whump - that was fascinating. Also so many countries having a special phrase or slang for it.

She's as daft as you are, because that is simply not true.

Every country has a class system. The difference in England is that it’s out in the open. However, in some ways that makes it easier to jump classes if you’re super keen and learn the rules. You ensure you live in the right neighbourhoods, kids go to the right schools, socialise in the right areas, take lessons in how to speak, dress, the right pursuits and voila your DD lands the right man and she gets your grandkids into the next class Middleton stylie. Much harder in those countries where they pretend it’s all equal when everyone there knows it isn’t.

You're bizarre.

And egotistical.

How can you just say to other people that their experiences are not true.

That woman came on and gave a well written post about all the inequalities and class snobbery that she has seen in ireland.

Your response: that's not true!

Can you back up your simplistic argument of "that's not true" with facts?

Um what? You’re all over this thread telling folks they are in denial and telling them their experiences aren’t true. Literally.

I can yes. The argument was "rich kids only play with other rich kids" and my refutation is that I'm looking out of the window into my garden which has 6-7 year olds in it from a wide range of backgrounds.
I can tell you it is simply not true because IT IS NOT TRUE.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I've had it with playdates & party invites, Irish parents (dads are as bad as the mams) catagorise kids into "people like us" boxes.. Grew up in rural Ireland, secondary school was the real eyeopener. From the first day of 1st year the solicitors, doctors, accountants, teachers & big business people of the towns children all got placed in a class together 1A1, "lesser kids 1A2 & children from council estates & terraces 1A3.. The 1A1 class did not mix at all, stuck together, got the best teachers & grades. I'm still very resentful over it. 1A3 through no fault of our own were an afterthought,judged as disruptive & got the worst teachers.

that was 6 7-8 year olds. One is an asylum seeker from Somalia, ones grandfather owns half of the county.

@Mooshamoo yep unfortunately not much has changed since my youth in rural Ireland. Living in a city now & parents are still engineering friendships for their kids..

Can the Widows Murphy pipe down with their put upon poor us moaning? You're making us look bad. Maybe people just don't want to mix with you because you're annoying and insular, rather than because of your percieved class?

Every country has a class system. The difference in England is that it’s out in the open. However, in some ways that makes it easier to jump classes if you’re super keen and learn the rules.

It is true and there are a lot of success stories of immigrants. What I notice myself, there is a lot of victimhood complex among the native population and misdirected anger at those slightly more successful (and not the ruling elites). Like, there was a thread not long ago that kids would do better at school if their parents read with them. And the replies were - you can't expect us do that! We work too hard and have no time! And next... let's ban/tax private schools. So go figure...

It’s the Little Britain mentality. Small thinking, insular mindedness, resentment of success and talking down those with money.

It's not just Britain, we've plenty of those in Ireland too. See above!!

You’re welcome. The Soviet Union was, and is, complex. I never experienced it directly as I was born in Yugoslavia in the dying years of both, so my insight on day to day life there is second hand and comes via my father who did grow up in the Soviet Union (Russian SFSR). I think the best context in which to consider it is by looking at what came before it, rather than by comparing it to Western European countries.

Such a dramatic change happened in such a short time, but how the Soviet Union operated is very much informed by the Tsarist regime it was born from, and was a reaction to. Before the Cheka there was the Okhrana, and exile to Siberia predated the Gulags, for example. In the case of the latter the gulags were of course much, much bigger and far more industrialized, but the Soviets built on what they already knew as a form of punishment.

You are so bizarre.

So you are saying your one personal experience means everybody else's experience in the whole country is wrong?

Wow. So you talk for all five million people in ireland then? Youre crazy.

I can see that your experience - whrte you see children playing together is probably true. I can see that the other Irish woman's experience where she sees rich children play with other rich children is also true.

Why. Because people have different experiences. I can't believe that you would think that everyone would have the EXACT same experience as you. Grow up