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Original poster

SO upset - planning permission granted

229 replies

Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 07:31

Hello. Ive posted here as well as in legal for advice. I hope that’s ok. I am so so upset about this and feel so angry about this as the whole process just feels so underhand.

Yesterday, I was approached In a cafe on the street I live by a man asking if I lived at my address and what floor I lived on. He didn’t introduce himself or explain why he wanted to know. He then said he knew I lived there as he had seen me on my terrace!!! I declined to answer until he explained that he was the owner (freeholder) of the entire building next door.

he wanted my contact details and my freeholder’s. Said he was planning an extension and loft conversion and needed to discuss a party wall with us.

I said you won’t get permission as you’ll block my light and he told me he had already been granted permission. I thought he must be lying as I was never notified or consulted about this and I’ve never seen anything.

I went home and he was awarded it! I called up the council (London council) and it turns out they no longer have to inform neighbours directly. They said they placed a press notice in a local newspaper (which is not my local newspaper in any case for my area) which I should apparently be reading?? They also said they put a site notice up. When I asked where that was, the officer couldn’t say. I never saw any site notice although I walk up and down my street multiple times a day.

I asked if I could appeal it and the officer said there was nothing I could do now as it was granted. I could only oppose it on a point of law on procedure if I believed the process hadn’t been followed correctly and I would have to appeal it in the High Court in the Royal Courts of Justice. I’m not sure I can even do that, as the permission was granted 8 weeks ago.

I’m deeply deeply upset about this. The proposed extension will block off most of the light into my kitchen and bedroom. It will also mean I am overlooked on my terrace and in my kitchen. And it will also kill off a number of climbing plants that are growing up the trellis which is on my boundary line where they are proposing a massive wall.

I’m just so upset and wondering if there is anything I can do. I just hate how underhand and sneaky the whole thing has been. The council officer did say it was suspicious for this neighbour to approach me to agree works after it the permission was granted and it wasn’t the normal way he would’ve done it but then said it’s a flawed system and he’s had similar complaints.

I feel like this neighbour has been allowed to hide behind the new process of this council not to inform me directly, and has deliberately done this knowing I can not challenge it.

I know my neighbour clearly wants to start work soon which is why he wants to issue this party wall notice.

please please could someone let me know if I have any way of challenging this or what I could do.

I cannot believe the council never wrote to me once given how I will be impacted but apparently that’s their process now and it would seem there’s nothing I can do about this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
GCAcademic · 15/04/2023 07:35

We had a similar issue with the council not informing us of our next door neighbour's planning application. It seems they don't contact neighbours now, which makes a mockery of the whole consultation process. Apparently there was a notice placed on a lamppost that no one ever walks past.

Twocoffeesisbetterthanone · 15/04/2023 07:38

They also said they put a site notice up they rarely do. Nobody actually checks. We had the same problem and the council were adamant it was stuck on a lamp post somewhere. It wasn't.

I'm sorry that permission was granted - it sounds pretty awful.

Shame there's no bat sightings nearby :(

Original poster
Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 07:40

I don’t believe they did put it up. But does anyone know whether I can oppose this decision to grant it which was given over 8 weeks ago now?

OP posts:
slamfightbrightlight · 15/04/2023 07:51

The officer is talking about judicial review. The time limits on that are tight, you would need to make a case for having only just become aware of the decision. You really need legal advice OP. The planning officer report should be available online which will tell you if they’ve considered the points you’ve raised here, though I can’t recall off the top of my head whether they constitute material planning concerns. The council should be able to prove it put up a public notice easily enough.

norma1980 · 15/04/2023 07:53

Ask them for evidence the site notice was put up?

You have 3 months to undertake a judicial review but it is expensive. You would first need a planning consultant, solicitor and barrister to review papers to see if you have a case. JR looks at how decision was made not at merits of planning application. Also, if you're successful and the permission is quashed it simply means the decision is returned to the council to make it correctly so you could end up with the same decision being made again.

Twocoffeesisbetterthanone · 15/04/2023 07:56

What a horrid situation @Bloomingpink2023 get the flat on the market before building work starts and move.

demotedreally · 15/04/2023 07:57

Sorry op, I suspect you have no chance on this and if you had objected it likely wouldn't have changed anything. It is a nasty shock for you.

In respect of the party wall request, what you described sounds like the process - it needs to be sorted to start the work that affects you but is not part of the planning permission. What do you think is wrong there?

IhearyouClemFandango · 15/04/2023 08:03

It doesn't sound like the chap has done anything suspicious, not sure what the planning officer was getting at? He would have to discuss a party wall agreement with you, and wouldn't do that until permission was granted.

FrenchandSaunders · 15/04/2023 08:03

Why are they approaching you in a cafe about this and not through proper routes!

Original poster
Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 08:09

IhearyouClemFandango · 15/04/2023 08:03

It doesn't sound like the chap has done anything suspicious, not sure what the planning officer was getting at? He would have to discuss a party wall agreement with you, and wouldn't do that until permission was granted.

I think the point is that if the process is about consulting with people, then the polite and ethical thing would be to have let me know before the application was granted so I could discuss my concerns.

it obviously suits him to alert me to this 8 weeks after the application has been granted when he knows there is little I can do.

OP posts:
Mindymomo · 15/04/2023 08:10

A friend of ours was in same situation, lived one side of a semi detached house adjourning house neighbours got planning permission for a loft conversion/extension, then a couple of years later they got permission for a side and rear extension. He did get our councillor involved and she objected to it, but she was the only one, neighbours were informed, but not all neighbours it seems. This house from the loft extension can see into many properties, has made my friends back garden dark and now only gets sun late afternoon and unfortunately my friend worried about it so much that he had a mild stroke, which the doctors told him it was probably caused by stress.

PinkPlantCase · 15/04/2023 08:12

Hi OP there really isn’t anything you can do now. Even if you were within the time limit for the judicial review it would likely cost you £10,000s in legal/consultant fees if you have that much spare cash then fair enough but as the PP said the application will likely still be granted eventually.

Are you sure the impacts on you are really as bad as you think? The application would have had to go through the planning determination process, consultations and be compared against planning policy. This would include considering over looking and the impact on neighbours. The design may have been amended through through process. They aren’t just granted willy nilly, it’s often quite a difficult process to satisfy.

I would also say that in most areas you can extend by 6m at single story with no requirement for planning permission at all.

EstherHazy · 15/04/2023 08:16

Oh I do feel for you OP. I don't think there's a lot you can do.

It's unhelpful, but I think lots of people are aware of the change about planning notices and in my area you can subscribe to email updates about your area, which is what I and my family all do. They wouldn't approach you about the party wall until the permission was granted so I don't think anything underhand has happened unfortunately. So, sign up for that service now if you can.

There are regulations about light so I'm really hopeful the actuality is not as bad as you feel in this moment of shock - it won't have gone through if it contravened these. They're not foolproof of course, but it would stop the worst blocking of light that happens. You don't have right to views, bur you do have right to light.

If it is any consolation at all, it's unlikely a single neighbour objection would have prevented the permission being granted - you'd have to show how it contravened specific regulations which can be very very difficult to prove.

I wouldn't move though! The planning will come up on any searches and it'd be better to sell with the known impact than a speculative one which allows for more negotiation about how bad it will be.

Best of luck with it all - it must feel really horrible at the moment.

Whatabouteverything · 15/04/2023 08:16

As above. Move before the work starts. Fight the party wall notice as much as possible. Say you've seen bees/bats/wild boards nesting and they need to get that checked out. Just fight everything you can now without going down the expensive route for you- make it expensive and time-consuming for the neighbour. And in the mean time get yours sold.

DogInATent · 15/04/2023 08:17

he wanted my contact details and my freeholder’s. Said he was planning an extension and loft conversion and needed to discuss a party wall with us.

Speak to your freeholder urgently. The loss of amenity will impact the value of their property, and they may have pockets deep enough to initiate something in law. You may also be affected by the works and the party wall arrangements need to be discussed.

jotunn · 15/04/2023 08:19

norma1980 · 15/04/2023 07:53

Ask them for evidence the site notice was put up?

You have 3 months to undertake a judicial review but it is expensive. You would first need a planning consultant, solicitor and barrister to review papers to see if you have a case. JR looks at how decision was made not at merits of planning application. Also, if you're successful and the permission is quashed it simply means the decision is returned to the council to make it correctly so you could end up with the same decision being made again.

The timing for a judicial review of a planning decision is now 6 weeks. It may be possible to claim that the op has no way of knowing and should be allowed longer, but she really really cannot delay to 3 months.

Marchitectmummy · 15/04/2023 08:21

If the extension will damage the light to your rooms you will be entitled to a sum from your neighbour.

You will need to instruct a rights of light surveyor, the neighbour will be required to pay for the surveyor. This only covers habitable rooms though so your bedroom but not your kitchen unless it is a kitchen diner?

Planning does not cover this as it is a right you or your building accrues over time by having a window in place.

It won't stop the development it will however compensate you a little. Planning does not cover this.

PinkPlantCase · 15/04/2023 08:25

Whatabouteverything · 15/04/2023 08:16

As above. Move before the work starts. Fight the party wall notice as much as possible. Say you've seen bees/bats/wild boards nesting and they need to get that checked out. Just fight everything you can now without going down the expensive route for you- make it expensive and time-consuming for the neighbour. And in the mean time get yours sold.

A party wall notice is all about it protecting the wall or the foundations of the a wall. Arguing about bees really isn’t going to help.

A notice can’t not be granted because one party is upset about it. It just means that a surveyor is appointed to act for each side and they make the reasonable decisions about protections for the wall.

RoyGBivisacolorfulman · 15/04/2023 08:27

Does it affect others in your building too?

Can you speak to the freeholder?

Newgolddream70 · 15/04/2023 08:29

I think you're going to need a very clever lawyer. This doesn't sound fair at all.

MandyMotherOfBrian · 15/04/2023 08:35

GCAcademic · 15/04/2023 07:35

We had a similar issue with the council not informing us of our next door neighbour's planning application. It seems they don't contact neighbours now, which makes a mockery of the whole consultation process. Apparently there was a notice placed on a lamppost that no one ever walks past.

Is it different rules for different councils then? Because I got a letter only yesterday informing me of a planning request by a neighbour - and not a neighbour particularly close by either.

SuperSange · 15/04/2023 08:35

You need to get hold of the freeholder; they'll be pissed off I'd imagine. Can you do that asap? It'll impact their property value.

Donotgogentle · 15/04/2023 08:40

Newgolddream70 · 15/04/2023 08:29

I think you're going to need a very clever lawyer. This doesn't sound fair at all.

From what pp have said it sounds like the legal processes were followed correctly.

And a lawyer would have to be more than clever to succeed with an application for judicial review significantly out of time.