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Original poster

SO upset - planning permission granted

229 replies

Bloomingpink2023 · 15/04/2023 07:31

Hello. Ive posted here as well as in legal for advice. I hope that’s ok. I am so so upset about this and feel so angry about this as the whole process just feels so underhand.

Yesterday, I was approached In a cafe on the street I live by a man asking if I lived at my address and what floor I lived on. He didn’t introduce himself or explain why he wanted to know. He then said he knew I lived there as he had seen me on my terrace!!! I declined to answer until he explained that he was the owner (freeholder) of the entire building next door.

he wanted my contact details and my freeholder’s. Said he was planning an extension and loft conversion and needed to discuss a party wall with us.

I said you won’t get permission as you’ll block my light and he told me he had already been granted permission. I thought he must be lying as I was never notified or consulted about this and I’ve never seen anything.

I went home and he was awarded it! I called up the council (London council) and it turns out they no longer have to inform neighbours directly. They said they placed a press notice in a local newspaper (which is not my local newspaper in any case for my area) which I should apparently be reading?? They also said they put a site notice up. When I asked where that was, the officer couldn’t say. I never saw any site notice although I walk up and down my street multiple times a day.

I asked if I could appeal it and the officer said there was nothing I could do now as it was granted. I could only oppose it on a point of law on procedure if I believed the process hadn’t been followed correctly and I would have to appeal it in the High Court in the Royal Courts of Justice. I’m not sure I can even do that, as the permission was granted 8 weeks ago.

I’m deeply deeply upset about this. The proposed extension will block off most of the light into my kitchen and bedroom. It will also mean I am overlooked on my terrace and in my kitchen. And it will also kill off a number of climbing plants that are growing up the trellis which is on my boundary line where they are proposing a massive wall.

I’m just so upset and wondering if there is anything I can do. I just hate how underhand and sneaky the whole thing has been. The council officer did say it was suspicious for this neighbour to approach me to agree works after it the permission was granted and it wasn’t the normal way he would’ve done it but then said it’s a flawed system and he’s had similar complaints.

I feel like this neighbour has been allowed to hide behind the new process of this council not to inform me directly, and has deliberately done this knowing I can not challenge it.

I know my neighbour clearly wants to start work soon which is why he wants to issue this party wall notice.

please please could someone let me know if I have any way of challenging this or what I could do.

I cannot believe the council never wrote to me once given how I will be impacted but apparently that’s their process now and it would seem there’s nothing I can do about this.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
ReadersD1gest · 16/04/2023 18:37

pollymere · 16/04/2023 18:24

Hmm. He mentioned a Party Wall. It's amazing what you do with a Party Wall. He has to have your written agreement for anything affecting the Party Wall which is why he has probably mentioned it to you. I suspect a good Surveyor would help you find something detrimental to your party wall in the planning...

None of that is true...

Weedoormatnomore · 16/04/2023 18:56

Thats shocking we had planning permission last year. Before it was granted they notified both our neighbours. I had already spoken to the neighbours to check they where ok !

Danielle9891 · 16/04/2023 19:00

We're in a similar situation but they are building 10 houses along the field next door to ours which would block out all the sun and not to mention scenery. It was the reason we bought the house.
They informed the person in front of us where the new road will be built but apparently we all need to check the local planning permission sites regularly, as there's nothing we can do once it's granted.

CMZ2018 · 16/04/2023 20:16

It’s not a new process. They do this if they don’t know all the details of owners/tenants

SweetSakura · 16/04/2023 20:44

Danielle9891 · 16/04/2023 19:00

We're in a similar situation but they are building 10 houses along the field next door to ours which would block out all the sun and not to mention scenery. It was the reason we bought the house.
They informed the person in front of us where the new road will be built but apparently we all need to check the local planning permission sites regularly, as there's nothing we can do once it's granted.

Too late for you but I always warn people to not buy a house near a field unless they would love the house just as much if the field was built on. Fields near existing houses are prime targets for development.

It might be worth getting advice on rights of light though, you may have a claim.

SweetSakura · 16/04/2023 20:45

SweetSakura · 16/04/2023 20:44

Too late for you but I always warn people to not buy a house near a field unless they would love the house just as much if the field was built on. Fields near existing houses are prime targets for development.

It might be worth getting advice on rights of light though, you may have a claim.

Show quote history

Forgot to say, I do really sympathise, it must be horrible and stressful.

Thinking2022 · 16/04/2023 20:48

I wonder if this decision may mean the owner can't go ahead even though has planning permission? https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/feb/01/tate-modern-viewing-platform-invades-privacy-of-flats-supreme-court-rules definitely get legal advice. Some firms offer the first hour free. Check their hourly rates. Try and do as much on your own as you can as costs are high.

Tate Modern viewing platform invades privacy of flats, supreme court rules

Court finds owners of apartments opposite London gallery face unacceptable level of intrusion

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/feb/01/tate-modern-viewing-platform-invades-privacy-of-flats-supreme-court-rules

Wavinggoodbyetoo · 16/04/2023 21:09

Thinking2022 · 16/04/2023 20:48

I wonder if this decision may mean the owner can't go ahead even though has planning permission? https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/feb/01/tate-modern-viewing-platform-invades-privacy-of-flats-supreme-court-rules definitely get legal advice. Some firms offer the first hour free. Check their hourly rates. Try and do as much on your own as you can as costs are high.

No it won’t, not if you read it.

Createausername1970 · 16/04/2023 21:14

We had work done on our property. Part of it was done through Planning Permission, which the neighbours were informed about by the Council, part of it was done through Permitted Development, which the neighbours weren't informed about by the Council. But we took the plans round for the neighbours to see before they were submitted.

mustgetoffmn · 17/04/2023 01:26

Im astonished. When did the decision to not inform neighbours directly happen? At least that should have been flagged up by the council. I would contact my local councillor and MP. Even if there isn't a legal chance you could still kick up a big fuss which would make other neighbours aware. Local councils are affected by residents' opinions on things, there are local elections imminent! I must say I did think that legally there should be a proper attempt to notify the area of this work. I'm afraid I would also be tempted to be unhelpfully obstructive to the work, ie access to your place, or does he have the freehold on your property as well? It's very depressing the way planning laws have generally been changed. Are any other neighbours affected who you could team up with.

MummyNeedsADrinkDear · 17/04/2023 02:57

Similar thing happened to me, op.
Neighbour blocked off all my light with a hideous build and then sold the property and fked off.
Still furious now 2 years on.

Rosscameasdoody · 17/04/2023 08:47

i wouldn’t have thought selling up and moving is the easy solution some people are suggesting. If the plans are major, the conveyancing solicitor would come across them during the searches surely ?

wonkylegs · 17/04/2023 10:17

Thinking2022 · 16/04/2023 20:48

I wonder if this decision may mean the owner can't go ahead even though has planning permission? https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/feb/01/tate-modern-viewing-platform-invades-privacy-of-flats-supreme-court-rules definitely get legal advice. Some firms offer the first hour free. Check their hourly rates. Try and do as much on your own as you can as costs are high.

Despite popular belief planning permission doesn't mean you can automatically go ahead with a development. It just means you have met the planning rules.
There are other laws you need to abide by they are just less well known and generally come under civil legislation so individuals have to take action rather than the council.
(Right to light, party wall etc)
You can get planning permission for land you don't own.... that doesn't mean you can build anything until you actually get permission from the landowner (or buy the land)
Planning permission also doesn't have to check ownership, light, permissions via other laws (although sometimes they do) so you can get one and still fall foul of the others.
It is up to the person doing the building to check...and often they don't but get away with it because other people don't know they can bring a case against it or the my don't have the money to fight it.

Movinghouseatlast · 17/04/2023 10:51

I actually did sell.up.after my neighbours built right up.to the boundary like this. They didn't do party wall which incidentally there is no way of enforcing.

The people who bought it saw what was there rather than what was there before. They certainly didn't see the trauma it caused. We declared the party wall dispute to them and they weren't bothered by it as to them it was in the past.

Messyhair321 · 17/04/2023 11:12

DogInATent · 15/04/2023 08:17

he wanted my contact details and my freeholder’s. Said he was planning an extension and loft conversion and needed to discuss a party wall with us.

Speak to your freeholder urgently. The loss of amenity will impact the value of their property, and they may have pockets deep enough to initiate something in law. You may also be affected by the works and the party wall arrangements need to be discussed.

This. I'd be upset if I was the freeholder of your property so they might be helpful

Myfabby · 17/04/2023 12:23

There is an awful lot of catastrophizing on this thread. And i find people are opposed to development and change just because. Sometimes due to envy!

My neighbours (detached houses by the way) complained about loss of light from my extension (which I got planning permission for). One of them has sheepishly a year later come to talk about his proposed extension.- after writing letters to council 2 years ago against my development and harassing my builders if they hadn't shut down work by 3.01pm.

Values of both houses have since increased.

I would suggest you talk to your freeholder and the neigbhour with a positive mindset and a view to resolution
Good luck!

mustgetoffmn · 17/04/2023 20:30

Myfabby · 17/04/2023 12:23

There is an awful lot of catastrophizing on this thread. And i find people are opposed to development and change just because. Sometimes due to envy!

My neighbours (detached houses by the way) complained about loss of light from my extension (which I got planning permission for). One of them has sheepishly a year later come to talk about his proposed extension.- after writing letters to council 2 years ago against my development and harassing my builders if they hadn't shut down work by 3.01pm.

Values of both houses have since increased.

I would suggest you talk to your freeholder and the neigbhour with a positive mindset and a view to resolution
Good luck!

You sound like one of those people who describe all change as “progress”. The OP has made it clear why they are upset, very specific negative reasons eg loss of light. You can’t compare your extension with one you haven’t seen, and mere increase in value of house doesn’t make all OK. There is more to owning a property than investment.

Snugglemonkey · 17/04/2023 21:02

Twocoffeesisbetterthanone · 15/04/2023 07:56

What a horrid situation @Bloomingpink2023 get the flat on the market before building work starts and move.

Too late for that really.

KTMeetsTheRsUptown · 18/04/2023 08:59

Houseplantmad · 15/04/2023 15:32

Which London borough OP? I'd be interested to know after a recent experience I had with our local planning department.

When you get the party wall agreement, the neighbour will probably "encourage" you to use their surveyor, as it will save them £. You are under no obligation to do this and can appoint your own at their expense. If you do use theirs, make sure you ask them to invoice you directly so that their contract is with you and then your neighbour can reimburse you.

You can also get things written into your PW agreement - when we extended our neighbour asked for a trellis to be put up on the new wall on her side. The other side asked for the wall to be rendered (over beautiful London stock bricks !) but we did both and bought the trellis neighbour a climber plant of her choice to go on it. Perhaps you could get the new wall rendered and painted white to reflect light into your room. You could ask for your plants to be removed professionally and reinstated elsewhere perhaps.

When our neighbours extended, we said we wanted a delay of a month as their works were due to coincide with my due date (they only presented the PW agreement at the last minute). I was able to do this within the terms of the PW agreement (I think you can delay for 6 weeks) and they had to comply, which saved my sanity.

Our other neighbours eventually extended and caused damage to our interior wall (significant cracking). Thank goodness for the PW agreement as neither of us needed to get involved and the surveyors sorted it out amongst themselves and we were happy with the result, and remained friends with the neighbour.

This is great advice. Definitely get your own PW Surveyor. I wish I had when my neighbour mentioned their planning permission literally days before scaffolding went up 😳.They weren't even aware of what a PW was until I mentioned it...they hurriedly wrote something out, printed from Internet (their daughter is a solicitor). I never signed it, or got my own surveyor and because of their builders incompetence I have had roof problems since and although they said "don't want me to be out of pocket" they never paid penny towards my roofers work to keep my chimney water tight and to clear off their builders debris from my roof and gutters (theirs was loft conversion and they reduced my Victorian chimney to couple of bricks high... planning and building control don't want to know and told me its a civil matter 😡

godmum56 · 18/04/2023 21:22

MandyMotherOfBrian · 15/04/2023 08:35

Is it different rules for different councils then? Because I got a letter only yesterday informing me of a planning request by a neighbour - and not a neighbour particularly close by either.

Show quote history

as I understand it, councils CAN inform neighbours but don't have to. The light one is also tricky as people don't actually have a right to light.

wonkylegs · 19/04/2023 14:09

@godmum56
People do have a right to light - www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/rights-to-light/
What they don't have is a right to a view - this is often what people confuse when talking about this.
Also the fact the right to light is separate from planning and can be quite complicated it what rights you do and don't have.

godmum56 · 19/04/2023 15:17

wonkylegs · 19/04/2023 14:09

@godmum56
People do have a right to light - www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/rights-to-light/
What they don't have is a right to a view - this is often what people confuse when talking about this.
Also the fact the right to light is separate from planning and can be quite complicated it what rights you do and don't have.

Thats a report. There is no evidence there to say that the law changed

wonkylegs · 19/04/2023 15:34

@godmum56
They do already exist legally through easements but can be confusing and are not absolute hence the need for the report I cited which is an attempt to simplify and clarify the position - it's not a change in the law because the rights already exist under private property rights (right to light is a synonym used for ease)
They are not absolute (so you are right some people don't have them but lots and lots of people do) and that is why I suggested the OP contact a professional for guidance in regards to the technical aspects of her case. However what she describes means they are the most likely thing to apply.
There are also planning rules which consider sunlight and daylight that are generally based on the BRE assessment criteria but they can also vary council by council on how they apply them and also are usually not as generous as easement rights.

PeachyPeachTrees · 19/04/2023 22:42

I'm surprised the planning permission was approved, even without you complaining. A house opposite me asked for a large single storey rear extension and adjoining (semi detached) neighbour didn't appose. We still get neighbour letters where I live. The council refused as the neighbour's only lounge window would have the light blocked. They had to reduce the length of their extension a whole metre before it was approved.